Pakistan's Bhutto Killed in Attack
POSTED BY: deadlockvictim
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 14, 2026 16:40
VIEWED: 12906
PAGE 6 of 16
It's bad that she's dead but she was also "our choice" rather than someone seen as having a huge chance in the election (even assuming it was fair.) The BBC did "men and women on the streets" interviews when she came back and found she was still seen with distrust (her government was seen as being corrupt.) In addition it was widely believed that the behind the scenes talks that brought her back to Pakistan included some kind of deal with Musharaf.
Her party broke with the rest of the opposition and decided not to boycott the elections in protest of the restrictions imposed by the state of emergency. I think we've done our old trick of thinking that someone acceptable to us must be universally loved in their own country.
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Quote:Who the hell let Moby in here?
Originally posted by chrisisall:
"Lot's" would be a contraction of "lot is", which makes no sense, Jong.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I think what I was getting at is the notion of waterboarding every single individual detained on suspicion of having some link to terrorism. The thought of using "harsh interrogation"/torture on all of them just makes my skin crawl.
Hmmm...how about terrorist attacks? Do they give you a warm and fuzzy feeling?
Try to be a little more grown up. Fella has information and people's lives are at stake. I'm not saying you drown him...waterboarding simulates drowning. And thats not the only option. Sleep deprivation, drugs, good cop-bad cop, blackmail, carrots (like better food, softer mattress etc.), bribery, a vacation to Bulgaria or Egypt (for more intensive discussions with local experts), Britney Spears (not the music...just stick her in the cell), I mean there's a lot of ways to make folks more willing to talk.
And we should broadcast videos of these terrorists begging for their lives (after all, deep down most big bad Jihadists are cowards), before undergoing gender reassignment surgury (I mean really quality surgury and with DD implants. Not to the public...that would be silly...on closed circuit TVs in their prison.
Ok, that last suggestion was silly...but would you want to be a Muslim woman? If your lucky enough to avoid being stoned or blown up then you get to live as a slave covered head to toe in some of the world's hottest climats.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Whu.... whAAA? Those folks in Gitmo were picked up at least four years ago and have been held incommunicado ever since!!!
I'm not saying they were involved in the attack. I'm saying that they know somebody, who knows somebody, who knows Kevin Bacon, who knows the bomb maker.
What, you think they didn't exchange names at Terrorist Summer Camp?
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
10 hours later , for me, since I asked the question anyway-- I've been at work.
ON CNN , they're leading a story that Bhutto told an American advisor that if she was killed, Musharrif world bear at least some responsibility.
Didn't copy it, or the link, so that ain't an exact quote, but that's the gist.
Thats true, she sent an e-mail back in October complaining about the lack of security from the government. I doubt she complained much after that because they had her on house arrest until a week or so ago because she was complaining they were too restrictive.
She wanted it both ways. To be protected and to be out in the public. And she knew the risks.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I think what I was getting at is the notion of waterboarding every single individual detained on suspicion of having some link to terrorism. The thought of using "harsh interrogation"/torture on all of them just makes my skin crawl.
Hmmm...how about terrorist attacks? Do they give you a warm and fuzzy feeling?
Try to be a little more grown up. Fella has information and people's lives are at stake. I'm not saying you drown him...waterboarding simulates drowning. And thats not the only option. Sleep deprivation, drugs, good cop-bad cop, blackmail, carrots (like better food, softer mattress etc.), bribery, a vacation to Bulgaria or Egypt (for more intensive discussions with local experts), Britney Spears (not the music...just stick her in the cell), I mean there's a lot of ways to make folks more willing to talk.
OK, the insulting (about being more grown up)--that's exactly what I'm talking about when I criticize these boards. We don't actually talk through the issues. We make inflammatory statements about each other. Hero, I'll talk issues with you all day long. But I just have no desire to engage in gain-saying and insulting.
That said, what troubles me about all this is the ends-justify-the-means style of argument you're taking. Obviously, the thought of terrorist attacks are horrifying to me. But I don't consider the moral good of preventing terrorist attacks as justifying the moral evil of torture.
So, OK, there are many different interrogation techniques. Perhaps we could talk about which ones cross the line and which ones don't. Or perhaps we could make this a conversation about when, if ever, a moral good justifies a moral wrong. But let's not descend into back-biting and insulting.
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- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/pakistan.friday/index.html
What disappoints me about the way people are reacting is that it's violent. That tempers my hope a little bit, because they're just buying into the cycle themselves; and I guess we all know where that's going to lead.
Oh, also: Italian news agency says Al Qaeda's claimed responsibility. Wonder if that'll be confirmed...?
________________________________________________________________________
- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!
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The American media is a big fat dirty whore....everyone on TV & cable all sullen & sad, as if they knew this woman personally or something. Fact is this woman represented everything the mainstream media abhors : a leader willing to confront & attack terrorists, a leader willing to acknowledge that there is dangerous war on terrorism (John Edwards & his media whores say WAR ON TERROR IS A BUMPER STICKER MADE UP BY BUSH....and millions of American IDIOTS believe him! God...it musta fuckin' killed those assholes on NBC etc to actually have to say those dreaded words War On Terror in discussing Bhutto's politics. Just like they don't have a fuckin' word to say about the amazing turn-around in Iraq. Just like 911...we can expect the loony-left to lay low for a few days...then they'll come out from under their slimy rocks to again say the war on terror is a myth, and Iraq is a disaster.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
OK, the insulting (about being more grown up)--that's exactly what I'm talking about when I criticize these boards.
If waterboarding makes you sick, then your being childish. Is it bad? Yes. Is it necessary? Yes. Thats life, doing stuff we don't like because we have to, cause it needs done, cause if it doesn't get done people suffer and die. Its a part of war. Nobody wants to drop a bomb or shoot someone (no good person anyway), but if they are trying to kill us, we have a right to stop them and there's no law that says we have to wait until they've done they're best to kill us before we look into the whole possibility of stopping them.
I understand how you feel, but don't let your feelings get in the way of what needs done.
I note for the record that in war sometimes the only way to tell the good guys from the bad guys is that the good guys regret what they have to do.
Quote:
We don't actually talk through the issues. We make inflammatory statements about each other. Hero, I'll talk issues with you all day long. But I just have no desire to engage in gain-saying and insulting.
Actually, I consider your emotional response to be an issue worthy of discussion. Some people call it the wussification of America. I always thought it was more related to laziness then lack of balls (which is why I consider it childish, rather then cowardess, in this I am in disagreement with some conservatives).
Quote:
But I don't consider the moral good of preventing terrorist attacks as justifying the moral evil of torture.
Neither do I. But the moral good of one's position is something that is best considered by the living. Are you willing to die for your moral belief?
I'm sure we can work out some kind of exchange program. We'll have a list and all the liberals can sign up and every year Al Queda can tell us what they planned to do and we can calculate the deaths and turn that many of you folks over for summery execution. That way you die for your beliefs, but I don't have to. Oh, and if you sign up, your family has to be on the list too.
Quote:
Perhaps we could talk about which ones cross the line and which ones don't.
Drowning...bad, simulated drowning in a controlled setting with proper medical supervision...ok.
Britney...bad.
Drugs...good.
Sleep deprivation...good.
Physical abuse (punching, electro-shock, purple nurples)...bad.
Physical discomfort (forced standing, hot cell, ichy nose)...good.
Good cop...good. Bad cop...better.
Forced Sex change...bad (although we should reserve the right to go half way with Bin Ladden).
H
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Quote:Very doubtful. Terrorist organizations are decentralized, fluid, ad hoc, and even spontaneous. BUT! If you waterboard them long enough I'm sure they'd admit to knowing sumpthin' about sumpthin'!
I'm not saying they were involved in the attack. I'm saying that they know somebody, who knows somebody, who knows Kevin Bacon, who knows the bomb maker.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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