5 Myths About the Poor Middle Class
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Friday, January 4, 2008 20:04
VIEWED: 6018
PAGE 4 of 10
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, I don't believe you. So- whatever.
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Always look upstream.
Anybody with the ability to read the text I quoted and then read the actual article in the Post can see that I changed nothing.
Too bad that you can't let such a simple exercise get in the way of your preconceptions.
In response to your standard 'What About Inflation?' comment, note that only two of the five Myths and answers are impacted by inflation, and the answer to myth #2 includes "For married couples, median incomes have grown in inflation-adjusted dollars by 25 percent since 1979."
I gotta agree with Finn. "...I suspect the problems you have with its bases of comparison have a lot more to do with your disagreement with the author’s point then any kind of real problem with the author’s logic."
You just can't stand anything that might make it seem like the world isn't going to hell in a handbasket, and will reflexively attack anything that tends to disagree, even to making up baseless charges about folk changing the facts.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Simply comparing economic statistics from 1979 and today doesn't tell the whole story. Adjusted for inflation I earn about the same today as I did In 1979. The difference in my standard of living has come from the benefits of free trade and technological advancement. Low interest rates and cheap foreign products mean I can own twice as big of home and fill it with big screen TVs and other items that there is no way I could have afforded in 1979. Technology has displaced some manufacturing workers but individual productivity has grown at an incredible rate. The productivity increases in the jobs I have had means that the prices for the products I produce have remained stable or even dropped in some cases since the early 80's. New technology also means that there is less need for skilled workers in the manufacturing sector but more need for educated and none skilled workers in the technology and service sectors. Most of the dissatisfaction of the American people is because of the growing pains associated with the change in the US economy from a labor intensive manufacturing economy to a technology and service based economy.
Just as a side note, the US manufacturing sector alone is still larger than the entire Chinese economy.
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Quote:Okay then, I'll write an article that states that most baby-boomers live on Mars- then it'll obviously be true...
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
According to this article the middle class is shrinking because middle class earners are getting richer, not poorer. It’s not that difficult to understand.
Get your ass to Mars Chrisisall
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Geezer, Finn... I tried to get a real picture out of the stats, but it's like having five unknowns and three equations... the article keeps shifting the base of comparison so frequently that it's mathematical hash. It's impossible to get ANY sort of coherent view out of it. So I went back to common measures to see what I could see, and I found serious flaws in most.
Here's what I found:
You can look at percentage of GNP in quintiles. The story is that the top two quintiles are taking in a way higher precentage of the GNP than they used to and the top decile is doing spectacularly better, which means that income disparity is increasing (the GINI index tell the same story). But it doesn't describe the quintiles in any objective sense. For example, is the central quintile doing "better than" before? (Which would be the case if the GNP were rising faster than the amount being skimmed off at the top) Or is the central quintile doing "worse than" they used to? (Which would be the case if the GNP were falling, or not rising as fast as the "skim off the top" is rising.)
Or, you could look inflation adjusted household income. You would have to define your "middle class" by income, and then look very carefully to see if your inflation adjustment was in-line with the official inflation rate (Sometimes the official inflation rate isn't truly reflective of increased costs, so you might want to double-check your adjustments with a "basket" of major purchases like housing, cars, electricity costs per KWH, and major appliances like refrigerators etc.) But then you'd have to take into account two competing factors: There are more single heads of household than before, but married couples have two working people instead of one. (Which is why "married couples" have increased their household income 25%. Of course they've also increased their work hours by 70%. That's just some of the "hash" from your article.)
So of all the measures, probably the best is distribution of inflation-adjusted hourly (or yearly) individual income. (Again with the caveat that you'd have to check the official inflation rate against some common sense measures, because they "adjust" the "basket" of goods used to measure CPI fomr time to time. For example, they dropped steak from the basket because it was too expensive.)
I'm willing to look at the numbers in some realistic fashion. But not from some shitty opinion piece written by a guy with an axe to grind, and not through discussion with folks who apparently know nothing about economics or math.
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Always look upstream.
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A shrinking middle class often precipitates societal collapse.
Surely if everyone is getting richer it should be the poor and working class that would be shrinking, not the middle class?
Doesn't a shrinking middle class show a widening gap between rich and poor?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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I don't care what the numbers say, all I know is that as a married man, with 4 kids, and a wife who stays at home, I can't survive on the same dollar amount that my father made, with 4 kids,back in the 70's and 80's. I would need to make at least 40k a year just to break even. That is my reality, and whether the middle class is growing or shrinking means bupkus to me. How does one survive the increasing costs of food, gas, housing, clothing, etc, when wages don't keep up to the increase? Answer me that.
I have 6 locks on my door and bolt every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they're always locking 3 locks.
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Quote:By taking any jobs available- even honest ones...
Originally posted by gorramgroupie:
How does one survive the increasing costs of food, gas, housing, clothing, etc, when wages don't keep up to the increase? Answer me that.
Malisall
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So I guess Finn and Geezer are just going to ignore my post then?
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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What, are you nuts ?
Common sense, logic, and rational debate is like garlic, silver and sunlight to that bunch, besides which, even if they did bother to address it, would it really be anything but more of the same with a double heaping of idealogical nastiness of some type as a slam for daring to disagree with their proclaimations, and some snark thrown in on the top like candy sprinkles ?
If you're arguing the point for the benefit of other folks who read RWED and don't post cause of how rough it gets, by all means, go for it...
Otherwise, just accept the futulity of arguing with the brick wall of a zealots faith, and just bait them into revealing their true selves and agendas, which is also more fun, as well.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:Well that sums up your participation on this board fairly well, if somewhat hypocritically.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Otherwise, just accept the futulity of arguing with the brick wall of a zealots faith, and just bait them into revealing their true selves and agendas, which is also more fun, as well.
And I did read and respond to sixstring's post. I'm not exactly sure what he expects me to say, but I said all I'm going to on it. If for no other reason then that there are plenty of discussion I can have that doesn't involve childish taunting.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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