Normally, the UN can kiss my ass, but.....
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 04:17
VIEWED: 9010
PAGE 8 of 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:If you say so. Sounds more like an inappropriate use to me, if what you say is true, but a cop can just as easily misuse, with far worse consequences, pepper spray or a baton.
Originally posted by rue:
Like the cop that tasered the driver who wouldn't sign the ticket ? Oh, I told him to, he didn't so I used my taser.
A sterling example of the necessary use of a taser.
I was going to wait until the end to make a post, which I still plan on doing, but I had to comment on this invalid argument because it is just so egregiously wrong.
First of all, in this particular example, the man did not do anything illegal whatsoever. By Utah law, you are not required to sign a ticket, but this is a moot point in the first place. After having recieved a citation, even if he were to rip it up in front of the officer, he has still violated the law by speeding and will have violated the law again if he doesn't show up to court or pay the fine. Now he will have to answer for two crimes, instead of one.
Pretty stupid, right?
This cop was just on a power trip and tazed the guy because he had the audacity not to act like a scared little eunich when the cop was bossing him around and acting in an inappropriate manner by giving orders that the civilian did not have to comply with in the first place.
Then he got tazed for standing up for his rights.
HERE IS THE BIG POINT (THUS, THE BOLD TYPE AND CAPITAL LETTERS):
THIS COP WOULD NOT HAVE BRUTALIZED THIS MAN WITH A BATON OR SHOT HIM HAD HE NOT BEEN ARMED WITH THE TAZER. LOOKING ONLY AT THIS ONE PARTICULAR CASE WITHOUT ANY OUTSIDE INFLUENCE, THE TAZER GAVE THIS COP THE ABILITY TO EXERT HIS WILL ON SOMEONE WHO HE HAD NO RESPECT FOR.... PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
Three more points I'd like to make:
1. I have no use for the UN at all and I loathe them even more than police. I simply used that to get a debate started here, which apparently worked very well.
2. I am not calling for a ban on tazers altogether, just a very in-depth training regimen for all law enforcement officials who will carry one. And, much more importanlty, a very serious inquery into officers who have been accused of misusing the tazer. One in which officers really are punished, suspended and even terminated without benefits for mis-use of the tazer. ONE WHICH WOULD ELIMINATE A "REFLEX" ACTION TO USE THE TAZER AND MAKE AN OFFICER THINK JUST AS HARD ABOUT USING THE TAZER AS HE WOULD USING A GUN.
3. I honestly don't see how anybody could watch this video on either side of the fence and not agree that this cop deserves to be punished severely for what he has done. If cops didn't get caught on camera doing stupid shit like this, people like me wouldn't have much of an argument in the first place. He's just making it easier for our case and harder for your case.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:And what is so egregiously wrong about this argument?
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:Quote:I was going to wait until the end to make a post, which I still plan on doing, but I had to comment on this invalid argument because it is just so egregiously wrong.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:If you say so. Sounds more like an inappropriate use to me, if what you say is true, but a cop can just as easily misuse, with far worse consequences, pepper spray or a baton.
Originally posted by rue:
Like the cop that tasered the driver who wouldn't sign the ticket ? Oh, I told him to, he didn't so I used my taser.
A sterling example of the necessary use of a taser.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
And what is so egregiously wrong about this argument?
Sorry Finn. I got all wrapped up in the post that I didn't get to that until after you posted back apparently.
It's the part in bold caps where I said:
THIS COP WOULD NOT HAVE BRUTALIZED THIS MAN WITH A BATON OR SHOT HIM HAD HE NOT BEEN ARMED WITH THE TAZER. LOOKING ONLY AT THIS ONE PARTICULAR CASE WITHOUT ANY OUTSIDE INFLUENCE, THE TAZER GAVE THIS COP THE ABILITY TO EXERT HIS WILL ON SOMEONE WHO HE HAD NO RESPECT FOR.... PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
Not that I'm yelling at you here. Should have probably decapitalized it here for the repeat to you, but I'm being lazy now.....
I altered the post a bit more than that too. Not used to somebody replying so quickly the hours that I'm posting here....
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:I actually just sat down at the computer (taking a break from painting my living room). I didn’t realize that you had just posted. Normally, I do wait little while before replying to see if the poster makes any changes.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I altered the post a bit more than that too. Not used to somebody replying so quickly the hours that I'm posting here....
Anyway, I don’t agree with your assertion that the officer would not have brutalized this person if he hadn’t have had a taser. You could be right, but you have no way of knowing that and it certainly doesn’t make sense to personify a taser with some sort of abusive power, because it is the officer, not the instrument, that is abusive. If an officer is abusive, he or she will be so with or without a taser. It just so happens that the taser is the instrument commonly used today. In the past, it was the baton. Officers abused their power long before tasers came on the scene and they will do so long after tasers are replaced with something else. There will always be a certain (small) percentage of bad cops. And their actions will never be the fault of the instrument they are using. As far as controlling the use of tasers, that also has nothing to do with the taser, but everything to do with limiting abuse of powerful in the police force. To put the taser center front on this matter, does nothing more then draw attention away form the real issue.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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No worries. Sorry for the confusion. I tend to re-read my posts and alter them a bit. Bad habit, I know, but it's the way my brain works and I just go with it.
But I see we're coming to a point we can have some common ground though. You are correct in that there is no way that I could know if this officer would not have resorted to the club had he not had a tazer. He very well may have. We've already witnessed his lack of regard for this other man. It's just that I think he would have thought very hard about crossing that line, because of the lasting and visible effects that a bashing would leave. You know.... visible proof of wrongdoing.
I think we both agree here that in this particular case, the officer was wrong. I just think that this officer should be just as severely punished for what he has done as he would have been had he bludgeoned this guy with the club or popped a cap in his knees.
I'm not calling for disarming the cops, just a serious investigation be done on misuses such as this.
Can you agree with that? Because if you can, my work here is done. "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:The only way to know if tasers induce abusive behavior is to look at the frequency of "baton use" before introducing tasers versus the frequency of taser use and baton use afterwards. Although I doubt that it would be easy to come by these statistics.
You could be right, but you have no way of knowing that and it certainly doesn’t make sense to personify a taser with some sort of abusive power, because it is the officer, not the instrument, that is abusive. If an officer is abusive, he or she will be so with or without a taser. It just so happens that the taser is the instrument commonly used today. In the past, it was the baton. Officers abused their power long before tasers came on the scene and they will do so long after tasers are replaced with something else. There will always be a certain (small) percentage of bad cops. And their actions will never be the fault of the instrument they are using. As far as controlling the use of tasers, that also has nothing to do with the taser, but everything to do with limiting abuse of powerful in the police force. To put the taser center front on this matter, does nothing more then draw attention away form the real issue.
Someone in another thread- same topic- said that they WANT the use of force to be fraught with danger and consequence for the cop and I agree with that reasoning. There has to be some sort of barrier to "bad cop-ism".
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
For every one person the UN has helped, they probably have killed two with their meddling. Looks like maybe 50 million may have died over the past 30 years from Malaria thanks to UN.
Shit, a few more they'd be competing with the US government.
Always the brides maid UN.
Citizen:
After having read some of your posts I will readily concede that you are ________ more intelligent and articulate than myself. Having said that, If you chose to talk down to me, or badmouth my country again, I promise name calling will in-sue.
Edited: Remove word "probably"
"Rock Chalk, Jayhawk, KU"
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Jack, what stuck in my craw overtop of that was the sheer arrogance of flat out lying about it, on camera... like he didn't care, cause no one is gonna take him to task for it cause he's a cop.
THAT, imop, is far more dangerous in the long run than the tasing was.
And it's the core and root of the problem.
Sarge ?
Ya might be interested, the same folk who brought to you the cell phone jammer are workin on a project resurrected from back when a lot of rapists were using stunguns, although I am not gonna spare any more details than that at this time.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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OOOOOOHHHH ! Interesting notion. Well man, I'll be ready for you to dish.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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"badmouth my country"
Uhhhh. The US has a LOT to answer for. You know that, right ?
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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