Normally, the UN can kiss my ass, but.....
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 04:17
VIEWED: 9010
PAGE 3 of 10
I don't. But they happen to be right in this case. Our nation is so lost in its post 9/11 insecurity that we can't see it, but it's there if you look.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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A policeman tased a dude for not taking a speeding ticket- you can also start a car with a dead battery using 'em- they truly are the all-purpose tool!
Tasers all around! Chrisisall
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Actually, my feelings for the UN aside, I don't believe they are correct. I know that the panic mongers among us are crying havoc over the use of Tasers and other stun devices, and I am not so stupid as to believe that there are those out there that don't misuse them.
The answer, however, is not disarming the police, but rather punishing severely those among them who misuse and abuse their authority. The simple fact is that it is more dangerous than ever to be a police officer of any level, thanks to our liberal judges and politicians who want to be everyone's 'friend' and make sure that America punishes only those of us who obey the law and try to make a good living.
There are rotten cops out there, we've all seen them. Lean on those in power to get rid of them, instead of pulling the teeth of every officer out there. If we keep restriciting the tools available to the police, sooner or later they will simply stop responding to violent calls, finding some reason or other that prevents them from rushing to the scene until the violence is past.
If they do that, then we'll see who the enemy is, lol, and it won't be the ones wearing the badges I'm willing to bet. Well, it will to those who simply hate the law no matter what.
And, if it does come to that, I don't blame them for not placing their own lives in danger when they are denied the tools they need to protect the rest of us because of the hysterical ramblings of so many people living in dreamland over a few jackboot types who should have been fired. Better yet, imprisoned.
Bad_karma
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Quote:In fact, batons and physical restraint are far, far more likely to cause injury and death then tasers.
Originally posted by Geezer:
Well, I guess pepper spray, bily clubs, restraining holds, handcuffs, piling on, etc. are all right out too, since they can also cause acute pain. Looks like the only choices are polite conversation or a bullet to the brain.
It’s funny how people would rather see detainees killed by physical restraint then have to listen to someone scream from being tasered. It’s a completely emotional and irrational response (and a little bit selfish) and it's a dangerous response, because it’s going to get people killed.
The UN is dumb.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Where's Hero to tell us why this was warranted, and how it's legal?
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
EDITED TO ADD: Here's a link of something I believe can't be warranted by the people.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fae_1195587967&p=1
Nothing like getting tazed in the back for not complying with orders, (with no legal basis) especially when you never once posed a physical threat...
Yeah, a free country...free to abuse, that is
not THE MAN Chrisisall
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Wull, I don't much expect to be heard by the folks that particularly need to understand the distinction, but it's an issue of absolute power and control. A taser removes your will from the equasion. None of those other things (batons, pepper spray, etc.) will do that with the kind of mechanical, physiological certainty of a taser. The taser represents a level of actual control that should be understood as a violation of human dignity. No one deserves that (sure, if you're in a life and death situation, human dignity may have to be discounted temporarily--but that's what Rue and others are talking about--life and death situations).
But that's one of the big, BIG problems of our age--many, many people still believe that certain folks do not deserve to have their dignity respected. The idea seems to be that certain folks can forfeit their right to being treated with dignity by their actions.
I was nearly arrested last year, pulled out of a bathroom, pushed against a wall, searched/slapped, and manhandled out to the squad car because I matched the broadest description (long hair, backpack, 40ish) of a man who stabbed a clerk at a nearby Safeway. When it was brought to light that I was not the attacker, this cop clearly felt ashamed and tried to prop himself up by suggesting that I'd have wanted him to treat the actual attacker the way he'd mistakenly treated me. I was so furious with this man at that point, all I could say was a simple "no" and let it go, get away from him and his gun asap.
This idea that certain people deserve to be treated like human garbage is central to the authoritarian mindset. Of course it has far more to do with the punisher's desire to do harm, to humiliate and to dominate than it does with the highly debatable "deserving" of the victim. These folks have a lot of violence that they want to do in the world (they've surely had a lot of violence done to them) so they create a society where their violent urges will be realized and culturally acceptible (at least vicariously/voyeuristically through the police and the military). But, no mistake, it is about sadism--about gaining satisfaction, not safety, through violence. It is about all the anarchic rage that channels itself into whatever "lawful" outlet people can find.
What do all these cops that misuse tasers have in common? Well, they got issues, don't they? They're angry folks that don't feel that they have enough power in the world. And they find an acceptible outlet for that in using the taser. Such folks need to be educated about the human soul, but most of all they need to be educated about their OWN souls.
Oh well, maybe in their next life time, right? 
(That last joke was mainly for Chrisisall--hey Chris! 
)
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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HK,
I find myself, once again, indebted to your eloquence. This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Thanks.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:So instead we’ll just beat their head in with a baton or crush their larynx with a knee? I think the issue is more deeply rooted in the empathetic response of observers then any issue of totalitarianism. You can, and nations have, inflicted far greater total rule of a populace with nothing more than batons and knees. The problem with tasers is that they cause pain which is clearly visible. An observer cannot escape the “feel” that someone is being hurt. But it’s purely emotional. The detainee could possibly be controlled quietly, which is more acceptable to critics of the taser, but only with the use of physical force that would leave far greater trauma on the detainee and possibly result in the detainee’s death. It’s completely irrational.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
But that's one of the big, BIG problems of our age--many, many people still believe that certain folks do not deserve to have their dignity respected. The idea seems to be that certain folks can forfeit their right to being treated with dignity by their actions.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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God, that's depressing.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I was just hoping that people who posit tasers as an all purpose tool will understand that their original use was as an alternative to deadly force only. That's the reason why they came into acceptance even though everyone at the time understood the potential for abuse.
Who's "...posit(ing) tasers as an all purpose tool"? I just don't think they should be banned as torture. They're a tool which can be used properly or misused, just like anything else. Obviously, all law enforcement in the country hasn't gotten appropriate training, but if you give up any tool that a few misuse, pretty soon you're down to nothing.
Quote:
Geezer snickeringly said - "Looks like the only choices are polite conversation or a bullet to the brain." Aside from being an obvious false dilemma,
Not snickering, and it seems a real dilemma to me.
Okay, besides taser/billyclub/handcuffs/pepperspray/restraining holds/piling on or any other actions which may cause intense pain, other alternatives against a violent person (other than talk and bullets) are? Remember that threat of death or serious injury causing intense fear is also torture, so 'stop or I'll shoot' doesn't qualify.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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