Real World Event Discussions
And now for something completely different
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, November 25, 2007 19:14
VIEWED: 15117
PAGE 14 of 14
Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:36 AM
Quote:I've been talking about both, but I've also been pretty clear on that particular aspect that I was talking about what is inside peoples heads. I've said as much a number of times (you don't really know what people are thinking, so on and so forth). There's two aspect I've been talking about, you seem to have confused the two as the same, I'm not contradicting myself, I'm talking about two different aspects of the same thing.
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Now now... you're contradicting yourself cit. I won't go digging, but I'm sure pretty near every reply you've posted to me brings up and focuses on "belief systems" and how my stance is a judgement on the belief system behind the "liars." Even later in your same post, that's your focus, see:
So yes, later in my post that's the subject, because later in my post I'm dealing with a different aspect of what I'm talking about.
One aspect is that your belief that they are lying, is not more correct than them saying they believe. The other aspect is that in order to say "everyone who believes in X is lying" is inherently a judgement call on X.
The second part is perhaps more specific than the generalised first. The first part is the general "you can't tell someone else what is in their head".
Quote:I'm evidently not making my point. If the only know data is X, and you make a judgement on "everyone X", how can you be basing it on anything other than X? You've not seen all people who say "I believe in the FSM", so there is no basis to say "everyone who believes in the FSM is a liar" beyond the FSM.
Not completely so. As I said, I make my blanket statement based not only on the silliness of FSM, but on what I've observed of adherents to FSM-ism, including the creator of it all. I see no evidence for genuine, deep-seated belief in anyone's head. I see FSM-ers using FSM as a tool in a debate.
If I'd met only a few OAPs at a home, would it be fair to say "all old people are senile"?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Sunday, November 25, 2007 4:04 AM
Is it just me, or is there a lot of frustration piling up here? We're not becoming hostile combatants, are we, cit? Hope not!
And yet, back to the battle I go... 
Quote:So, when you said "I'm not talking about the belief system, I'm talking belief as in 'contents of their head'" what exactly were you referring to? I took it to be a general statement, because I couldn't tie that line to any one thing you've said. Perhaps you didn't mean it so generally...?
Originally posted by citizen:
I've been talking about both, but I've also been pretty clear on that particular aspect that I was talking about what is inside peoples heads.
Hmm. Maybe what we need here is a definition of "belief system," because I think you're using the term fairly broadly, referring to a range of things, and I'm probably using it in a way that's much to one side of that range.
Quote:Uh.... wha? Huh? OK, I think I get what you're saying. Maybe. If you mean that anyone can be wrong, well duh! Of course I could be wrong.
One aspect is that your belief that they are lying, is not more correct than them saying they believe.
As for sincerity... OK, I have a theory that FSM is a tool used to make an argument whereas ID is to-the-roots-of-the-brainwashed-psyche belief. Currently, this best fits my data, though it does depend on the hypothesis that FSM-ers don't truly believe. That could be wrong, because I am not omniscient and I don't know people think. That doesn't stop me from making a judgement call.
What's more, I *believe* my theory. I'm not just saying it facetiously to drive home some related point. So I am different from the physics grad student who wrote that FSM letter, wrote it tongue-in-cheek to argue against ID and not in true belief to start a religion. (If you want to argue that he meant it, go right ahead!) (And if you interpret this as me saying: the FSM guy's lack of belief means the schoolboard should count him less than they count the ID-ers," then you haven't been getting my point!)
Quote:Another difference between our arguments is that you're being very general with "belief in X", where X could be senile people, etc. I'm not being that general in my discussion, never have. I'm talking about the very specific case of FSM and ID.
The other aspect is that in order to say "everyone who believes in X is lying" is inherently a judgement call on X.
Quote:I've not seen a single one, actually, which is my point. But I've seen many who use it facetiously. Compare that to that ID-ers that pop up with passionate arguments... well, hey. It's not so hard to figure, now is it?
You've not seen all people who say "I believe in the FSM",
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Sunday, November 25, 2007 7:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
Back To BrowncoatSandinista
I like the name; though it is a bit long. The obvious abbreviation of BS is likely to at least produce snickers if not offense... As to Selenopodastry . . . That's likely to confuse most folks (and even I'm edging a bit to confusion; Moon Footed?), and is likely to get misspelled a lot. On the bright side, it's very unique.
I'd rather produce offense with the connotation of 'Sandinista' ((Who really weren't as bad as the contras, in all seriousness.)) than with the abbreviation of 'BS'. Truth be told when I came up with the name I wasn't thinking of the possibility of a diminutive.
"Moon-Footed" is about right. See, Selene is the all powerful moon-goddess, and she does her dance of creation ((Kind of like Shiva only better cause she's creatin' rather than destroying.)) and all of creation is brought forth from her divine and Entirely non Noodly foot-creation-wellspring-appendage. Hence, Moon-Footed.
Mal4Prez, I do not mean any sort of offense, I in fact did not know at the time of writing that you dance, or that you profess to have cute feet ((I have no reason to doubt this.)) and wish for you to know that the Priestesses in Selenopodastry are in charge. I am but a lowly monk, contemplating the divine's choreography, and occasionally doing as I'm told
."I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card
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Sunday, November 25, 2007 7:14 PM
Quote:The Contras were mostly the slime of humanity, with some exceptions, of course. (I should know; as a taxpayer back then, I helped pay for them, much to my chagrin.)
Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
I'd rather produce offense with the connotation of 'Sandinista' ((Who really weren't as bad as the contras, in all seriousness.))
Back to religiosity...
Sidebarring Chrisisall
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