Writer's strike: Who do you want to win?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, March 7, 2024 03:54
VIEWED: 6689
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CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:20 PM

The news from Variety:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117976360.html?categoryid=18&cs=1

So, who do you sympathize with here, the writers who want to be paid for new media uses of their work, or the companies that need to make a profit to keep employing said writers?

Curious Chrisisall

DAVESHAYNE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The news from Variety:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117976360.html?categoryid=18&cs=1

So, who do you sympathize with here, the writers who want to be paid for new media uses of their work, or the companies that need to make a profit to keep employing said writers?

Writers. Fairly obviously. And when SAG and DGA strike over the same issues in a few months time I'll be with them too. They really do deserve to make money from their work and as alternate media becomes more and more attractive to consumers their sales should be part of the pay structure.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:02 PM

The writers of course.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

CREVANREAVER

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:06 PM

I'm a capitalist. So I support the producers.

Frankly, the writers are really the ones being selfish. Right now, they are putting a lot of production crew members out of work. That's what's dumb about strikes in general; financially, they hurt many people that have nothing to do with the issue.

Although, I do like that a lot of idiotic, obnoxious, narcissistic, spoiled and overpaid actors are being put out of work.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
I'm a capitalist. So I support the producers.

I'm with YOU!*
Screw the writers! They get paid a LOT for sitting on their asses and doing basically not much! They should all just be fired and replaced with new ones who are unafraid of the feast-or-famine lifestyle! The producers and executives know best- just like when they cancel unsuccessful dumb TV shows mid-season or refuse to pump dollars into marketing a movie based on that show!
Who needs freakin' writers or actors? Computers can write and animate stuff for us now anyway.

*not really Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
They get paid a LOT for sitting on their asses and doing basically not much! They should all just be fired...

Wouldn't the logical course of action be to give the writers jobs as CEO's and executive producers? I mean, if they're on their arse all the time, seems that they're eminatly qualified.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DAVESHAYNE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
I'm a capitalist. So I support the producers.

Why? How are the producers' economic interests more important in a capitalist framework than the writer's?

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

RUE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:40 PM

Writers

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

FLETCH2

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:44 PM

Writers because ultimately they make what we watch, producers just figure out how to pay for it.

HERO

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
So, who do you sympathize with here, the writers who want to be paid for new media uses of their work, or the companies that need to make a profit to keep employing said writers?

I think we should draft all the writers since this nation is at war and TV is a vital national interest. So we draft them like we did the coal miners in WW2. They've got no right to interfere with Battlestar Galactica production schedules or other projects vital to the war effort or national security (like The Unit...a show that is about American soldiers kicking ass and drinking beer). Truth is I was all for them getting a fair shake till they screwed up BSG Season 4.

Sure, everything is ok right now, we've got new episodes of other shows, NFL football, and TV movies. What happens in January when its re-runs of shows most of which were crappy the first time around.

I like the idea of NBC showing Firefly as a mid-season replacement.

H

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
They get paid a LOT for sitting on their asses and doing basically not much!

If the numbers I’ve seen are correct, they do get paid very well for what they do. As I’ve pointed out before, if the numbers I’ve seen are correct, they basically get paid on par with the median income of physicians. That should put things into perspective, at least for the reasonable people. They aren’t getting stiffed on income, at least not on average. Their job security seems to suck, but that is the way these kinds of jobs go. Writers are paid for their art in a businesses that waxes and wanes on the interests of a fickle public. They are also doing work that many people would be willing to do for free. How many people on this board get paid for writing fanfics? Zilch, I guess, but they still do it. And I’ll tell you something else, the fanfics I’ve read on this board are as good and sometimes better then much of what is professionally done for TV.

If the market decided how much they got paid, instead of the unions, then the really good and talented writers would be in high demand and probably make upwards of six figures, just like popular authors today. The really bad ones or the inexperienced ones, might not get paid at all, but they’d still do it. What they want is the best of both worlds. They want a job that is relatively easy which just about anyone can do, that allows them to express their creativity, but they also want the job security of a career that requires a considerable investment in education before it can even be started and which deals with weighty issues of the real world that many people would rather steer clear of. And all these hard working men and women out there, who struggled through 10 or 15 years of school to be able to do what they do and/or deal with complicated, dangerous and emotionally stressful issues in their job, want to come home and relax in front of a tv for an hour and recoup - but their favorites shows are on hiatus because a bunch a whinny bastards refuse to do a job hundreds, perhaps thousands, can do just as well for free.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

RIGHTEOUS9

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:39 PM

You could just as easily blame the producers for not being willing to pony up the money to keep the season going, and I'd be more inclined to.

The people doing the actual creative work should have a bigger stake in their own products...

.......

I worry about the kind of opportunity this could present studios though, to have a "legitimate" excuse, or at least a line they can sell to the masses about why they have to replace more expensive programming with more reality show crap that needs less writers. If none of the studios have to compete with anything better, they'll get the hungry audience to watch the crap they offer.

Not that I'm pretty sure about this, but it crossed my mind as something to be nervous about.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:

Why? How are the producers' economic interests more important in a capitalist framework than the writer's?

If the producers don't see a profit that pleases their shareholders, they have Hell to pay.
Writers just go a little hungry.

Dave, it's about priorities Chrisisall

RUE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:41 PM

"If the market decided how much they got paid, instead of the unions"

Now this here is plain fallacy. The unions ARE part of the market. Just as producers hold the power of employment writers hold the power of witholding their work. Since producers are dealing with aggregated power (capital) it makes sense that the writers aggregate their power as well. What's sauce for the goose etc.

***************************************************************
MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm ...... gooooooossssse ... with saauuuuce ...

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:45 PM

Finn, by your reasoning, a good Fireman should get better pay than our President...
Plus: why pay him as much anyway? There's hundreds, probably thousands out there that could do a better job for free

Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

Now this here is plain fallacy. The unions ARE part of the market.

Some live in a fantasy world where some aspects of a free-market economy don't suit their inner benevolent dictators.

I'm bad 2day Chrisisall

DAVESHAYNE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
As I’ve pointed out before, if the numbers I’ve seen are correct, they basically get paid on par with the median income of physicians.

When you consider that writing is a much less stable line of work than medicine this is not as good as it sounds. They may for a given period make as much in some circumstances but they can't count on making that wage from college till they retire as a Dr. can. So not really analogous at all even assuming that your information is correct.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

DAVESHAYNE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'm bad 2day Chrisisall

That you are.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'm bad 2day Chrisisall

That you are.

It's those peanuts I et last night...I'm lergic or sump'n.

Seratonin-challenged Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
It's those peanuts I et last night...I'm lergic or sump'n.

I find being force fed a line of horseshit tends to unsettle my stomach...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:20 PM

That too...

Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn, by your reasoning, a good Fireman should get better pay than our President...
Plus: why pay him as much anyway? There's hundreds, probably thousands out there that could do a better job for free

That’s your opinion, which is probably less then reliable on this particular issue. The president has a difficult job. But if we were talking about Firemen and screen writers, I still wouldn’t sympathize with the screen writers. Of course I don't really know that much about it. You asked for where my sympathies lie, not my opinion on the issue, which I'd have to hold until I had enough information for form an opinion.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
When you consider that writing is a much less stable line of work than medicine this is not as good as it sounds. They may for a given period make as much in some circumstances but they can't count on making that wage from college till they retire as a Dr. can. So not really analogous at all even assuming that your information is correct.

That’s the nature of the business. If you want job security, you need to go into a field where you are always in high enough demand, such as medicine, but most of those kinds of jobs require a degree of commitment that many people would rather avoid, and that’s why they have high job security.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The president has a difficult job.

What- going "uh huh...uh huh" and nodding then giving the occasional inept press conference and speech? He travels and goes to air craft carriers and dresses up...that ain't so hard. Worst part is having to listen to boring stats and things he don't understand. Listening to the irritating press make the occasional connection between his family and the Saudis.

Finn, writing and producing a show like Buffy or Heroes is INFINITELY more difficult. Unless, you're talking about a President that actually, you know, does work...

Not many of them these days Chrisisall

RUE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:13 PM

So when asked where his sympathies point, Finn says - physicians, reasonable people (those who agree with him), people who write for free and the market. Apparently they all should get a say, but writers shouldn't get any. Sounds fair.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
most of those kinds of jobs require a degree of commitment that many people would rather avoid

Okay- here we are. You cite my hatred of authority colouring many of my political and social beliefs- and here I see your resentment of folks with a commitment-free lifestyle doing the same. Just as you would say being rich doesn't necessarily make you a worthless human being, so too I would say that being a writer (read: hippy-type) doesn't either.
Is a quack doctor better than a great author, just 'cause he paid his dues more, and 'works harder'?
Would you want a world without Shakespeare, because he decided to go into a steadier line of work?
I fixed my own broken nose (TWICE!), but I couldn't have come up with Firefly. Seems to me you're setting a lower value on writers for personal reasons that aren't reflected in the actual supply and demand (or importance) of the business.

Hmmph! Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So when asked where his sympathies point, Finn says - physicians

That's why Finn like Kaylee; she agrees that doctorin' is the most important career path...

Good works Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn, writing and producing a show like Buffy or Heroes is INFINITELY more difficult. Unless, you're talking about a President that actually, you know, does work...

Just because the writers did a good job with Buffy and Heroes doesn’t mean their job is more demanding then being a US president. If you weren’t so quick to attack the president’s character because you don’t agree with his policy, you might see more clearly what I’m saying.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
most of those kinds of jobs require a degree of commitment that many people would rather avoid
Okay- here we are. You cite my hatred of authority colouring many of my political and social beliefs- and here I see your resentment of folks with a commitment-free lifestyle doing the same. Just as you would say being rich doesn't necessarily make you a worthless human being, so too I would say that being a writer (read: hippy-type) doesn't either.

I don’t see that anyone is arguing that screen writers are worthless people, so I don’t really know what I can say to this. You’re arguing a point that simply hasn’t been made. The fact that I don’t think being a screen writer is as challenging a career as being a physician does not in any conceivable way even began to presume that writers are worthless. I’m a writer, and I’ve been published. Why would I think writers are worthless?

I also don’t resent people with commitment-free lifestyles, but if your job is commitment free then you can’t possible expect me to believe that your career is as demanding as a career that is full of commitments.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If you weren’t so quick to attack the president’s character because you don’t agree with his policy, you might see more clearly what I’m saying.

That I don't like his policies is incidental to my assessment of the amount of real work he performs, many other lazy, unintelligent Presidents had policies I could deal with- he's just the worst of both worlds.

Quote:

I don’t see that anyone is arguing that screen writers are worthless people

Sorry, I meant worthless as in deserving of greatly lesser pay, in regards to the writers, my bad!

Quote:
I’m a writer, and I’ve been published.

Maybe you don't think as highly of your work as you should? Did you get minimal pay for it? Are there issues here?

Quote:

if your job is commitment free then you can’t possible expect me to believe that your career is as demanding as a career that is full of commitments.

My friend is a stuntman in Hollywood, and his 'commitment-free' life has him running around like a nut wherever the work is, except in Canada, where much of TV is done these days, because you need to be a resident to do stunt work there (or be married to a Canadian), so he has to take other jobs and be prepared to call out on them at a moment's notice...it's incredibly hectic and tiring. In it's way, it's a commitment as much as any other profession. Demanding has more to do with the 'demands' of the job, not just how much you paid for your education, or how punctual you need to be every day.

I sense a little working-class prejudice afoot here

.

Psycho analyzing Chrisisall

CAUSAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
I'm a capitalist. So I support the producers.

I'm with YOU!*
Screw the writers! They get paid a LOT for sitting on their asses and doing basically not much! They should all just be fired and replaced with new ones who are unafraid of the feast-or-famine lifestyle! The producers and executives know best- just like when they cancel unsuccessful dumb TV shows mid-season or refuse to pump dollars into marketing a movie based on that show!
Who needs freakin' writers or actors? Computers can write and animate stuff for us now anyway.

*not really Chrisisall

Right, because heaven forbid we should have any actual dialogue about this stuff. Let's just attack anyone who doesn't agree with us (especially if they should be in the minority of opinion about the issue).

On the other hand, at least everyone is being honest about being an ass. That's a pleasant change.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CAUSAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Now this here is plain fallacy.

Fallacious.

Fallacy is a noun, fallacious is an adjective. Unless of course, you had some type of fallacy in mind ( http://www.fallacyfiles.org/inforfal.html)

I love the smell of split hairs in the morning!

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:41 PM

Plus; Imagine if we had no one willing to take on the life of artists- no writing, no TV shows, no comic books...we'd probably all turn to zealous religious fundamentalism and advanced road-bomb design for our entertainment...

Just a thought Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Let's just attack anyone who doesn't agree with us (especially if they should be in the minority of opinion about the issue).

Who's attackin'?

I'm sarcastically agreeing

Chrisisall

CAUSAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Let's just attack anyone who doesn't agree with us (especially if they should be in the minority of opinion about the issue).

Who's attackin'?

I'm sarcastically agreeing

My apologies. Perhaps I should have just said, "maltreat."

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

Fallacious.

[George McFly voice]
Well, he's right, he's riiiiight...
[/George McFly voice]

Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

My apologies. Perhaps I should have just said, "maltreat."

I prefer the term...

ball-busting

Chrisisall

CAUSAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

Fallacious.

[George McFly voice]
Well, he's right, he's riiiiight...
[/George McFly voice]

What's happened to you Chris? You developed a mean streak at some point.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CAUSAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

My apologies. Perhaps I should have just said, "maltreat."

I prefer the term...

ball-busting

I suppose there's a difference between out-and-out meanness and ball-busting (heck, the latter can be done in genuine affection). But I'm not seeing much congeniality in this (or any other) RWED thread. We seem to have stabilized as an online community around particular social and political views. Unfortunately, those in the majority sometimes mistakenly think that their status as such entails that their positions are all the correct one. That means that some of them (and why name names?) give themselves permission to simply deride as moronic or evil anyone who should dare disagree. Yet we cherish the belief that FFF.net is a friendly, open, welcoming place. Well, it sure is--as long as your socio-political beliefs are of the correct sort, or as long as you stay the hell out of RWED. And seriously, I think that's just sad.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CITIZEN

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
And seriously, I think that's just sad.

No, it's cool you CLOD!

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
And seriously, I think that's just sad.
No, it's cool you CLOD!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Heh.

*sniffle-wipe-eyes*

Always good for levity; that's you, Citz!

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
That I don't like his policies is incidental to my assessment of the amount of real work he performs, many other lazy, unintelligent Presidents had policies I could deal with- he's just the worst of both worlds.

I think you have a poor assessment of the amount of work that being the president of a country is, but that’s tangential.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Sorry, I meant worthless as in deserving of greatly lesser pay, in regards to the writers, my bad!

I think that if you’re a talented author, you should get paid what talented authors get paid, which is often in the millions. However, if you’re part of union, you might have to accept what the union says. And have you watched TV recently? Are you honestly prepared to tell me that the majority of screen writers are talented authors? Because I’m not going to believe that. As I said, most of what is on TV is as good or better then what amateurs do for free. I think there are some really, really talented authors among screen writers, but they are probably working for less then the market would be willing to pay them, simply because their income is dependent upon a union that is “leveling the playing field” as it were for a shitload of crappy writers.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Maybe you don't think as highly of your work as you should? Did you get minimal pay for it? Are there issues here?

Actually, if anything I think always felt more highly of my work then I should have. Aside form scientific papers, most of what I’ve written has been very difficult for me to part with. I always felt cheap when I signed my work over to a publisher. The same was true of my art. As an artist I had a very hard time parting with my work. I was told I could have been successful, but I just didn’t have the emotional mindset to sell my work.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
My friend is a stuntman in Hollywood, and his 'commitment-free' life has him running around like a nut wherever the work is, except in Canada, where much of TV is done these days, because you need to be a resident to do stunt work there (or be married to a Canadian), so he has to take other jobs and be prepared to call out on them at a moment's notice...it's incredibly hectic and tiring. In it's way, it's a commitment as much as any other profession. Demanding has more to do with the 'demands' of the job, not just how much you paid for your education, or how punctual you need to be every day.

I sense a little working-class prejudice afoot here.

Let’s honest Chris, “Commitment-free” was YOUR description of screen writers not mine. So you’re kind of arguing with yourself now. I simply argued their career wasn’t as demanding as a physician for which their income is on par (according to one source) - I never said their jobs were free of commitments.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

What's happened to you Chris? You developed a mean streak at some point.

Seen Niki on heroes?

Same thing Chrisisall

CAUSAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

What's happened to you Chris? You developed a mean streak at some point.

Seen Niki on heroes?

Same thing Chrisisall

In that case, I shall be more circumspect when conversing with you. She tore folk limb from limb!

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

GEEZER

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
So, who do you sympathize with here, the writers who want to be paid for new media uses of their work, or the companies that need to make a profit to keep employing said writers?

I sympathize with the people who like interesting, challenging, smart TV. If the strike goes on long, we're gonna end up with even more 'un-scripted' reality TV as networks look for something cheap to fill airtime.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I think you have a poor assessment of the amount of work that being the president of a country is, but that’s tangential.

I don't doubt that it can be a lot of hard, grueling work for a man who isn't just a yes-man for others, but that ain't Bush.

Quote:
I think that if you’re a talented author, you should get paid what talented authors get paid, which is often in the millions.

Millions?? Whoah.

Quote:
And have you watched TV recently? Are you honestly prepared to tell me that the majority of screen writers are talented authors?

Well...no....but the guys at my (former)auto shop are idiots, and they still got paid

.

Quote:
I was told I could have been successful, but I just didn’t have the emotional mindset to sell my work.

I've been told the same.

Quote:
Let’s honest Chris, “Commitment-free” was YOUR description of screen writers not mine. So you’re kind of arguing with yourself now. I simply argued their career wasn’t as demanding as a physician for which their income is on par (according to one source) - I never said their jobs were free of commitments.

You're right on this one.

The reasonable Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

In that case, I shall be more circumspect when conversing with you. She tore folk limb from limb!

Hey- I'm just feisty today is all- I love all you guys!
Even Hero!
(well...Hero....)

Chrisisall

RUE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:23 PM

"Are you honestly prepared to tell me that the majority of screen writers are talented authors?"

Are you saying that writers actually decide what's in the show ? That's just silly.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:24 PM

Quote:
If the market decided how much they got paid, instead of the unions-Finn

Now this here is {a} plain fallacy. The unions ARE part of the market. -Rue

Amazing how many people haven't figure that out yet! To them, bargaining should be a matter of bending over and grabbing your ankles!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

DAVESHAYNE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s the nature of the business.

The other part of the nature of the business is that it makes money long after the work is done. Seems only fair to pay the creators of the work for as long as the work is making money. Particularly since reruns of old material compete for bandwidth (broadcast or narrow) with new productions that could otherwise be providing work for writers (and actors and directors and light, sound, and camera crews, etc.)

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
I think that if you’re a talented author, you should get paid what talented authors get paid, which is often in the millions.
Millions?? Whoah.

Ask Stephen King or Terry Brooks what they get paid. Good authors are paid a lot, and they should be, because we are paying for a rare talent and the market recognizes that. But bad writers are not rare and certainly aren’t talented. If it were up to me, I’d be willing to pay the writers of Buffy and Heroes more, and take the extra money from all the no-talent writers, but the union would throw a fit and demand a strike? And then I wouldn’t have any TV - oh wait, yeah that already happened.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

RUE

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:30 PM

"Are you honestly prepared to tell me that the majority of screen writers are talented authors?"

Are you saying that writers actually decide what's in the show ? That's just silly.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

AURAPTOR

Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:05 AM

I want what ever's best for Marti Noxon. What ever makes her happy, I'm for.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

LEADB

Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:33 AM

I believe a position closer to the stated position of the Writers is what I'm rooting for.

If they don't settle soon, I'm simply going to boycott all affected media until the strike is resolved. I guess no buying movies/tv shows for the coming holiday season. Oh well, too bad.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:34 AM

Casual, RWED isn't a very friendly place, that much is obvious within just about any three threads, but you don't get a sharp edge without some sparks either.

There's been some right good discussions here..
(and yeah, some right awful ones *wince*)
That are worth it in terms of tradeoff cause no way in hell could those issues have ever been so deeply explored if everyone was worryin about being polite.

I like having more viewpoints on a topic, even really radical ones, and it annoys me that folk tend to get vaporized like daffy duck facing marvin the martian on their first attempt to post here - although I flat refuse to to do such a thing even if they're whole post just makes me wanna wince... when we flame someone testing the waters, we lose a potentially interesting and different opinion, and it rooks me a lot.

I like seeing something from many different angles myself, even when I do not agree with them... even in topics where I have no stake or interest (religion, this one, etc..) I still like to watch...

(Oh dear, that sounded a bit perversely voyeuristic didn't it ?)

I don't have nothin to say on the topic itself, as I simply do not watch enough mainstream media stuff to really care - now if video game writers were striking, I'd be out there with a sign screaming "BRING BACK INTERPLAYYYYY!" at the top of my lungs...

BY gamers.
FOR gamers.
HARD-CORE.

-Frem

CHRISISALL

Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:35 AM

AU- my MAN!!!

We agree Chrisisall

RUE

Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:40 AM

Frem

This is just a quick response to 'I still like to watch'. If you take the 'still' out of there you get a famous line.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

CHRISISALL

Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:

If they don't settle soon, I'm simply going to boycott all affected media until the strike is resolved.

Star Trek TOS season one Remastered comes out soon; who cares about a strike, heh heh

y Chrisisall

AURAPTOR

Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
AU- my MAN!!!

We agree Chrisisall

Hope this dismisses any doubt that I can be quite sensible and even thoughtful. When I wanna be.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

Monday, November 26, 2007 5:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
I'm a capitalist. So I support the producers.

Frankly, the writers are really the ones being selfish. Right now, they are putting a lot of production crew members out of work. That's what's dumb about strikes in general; financially, they hurt many people that have nothing to do with the issue.

Although, I do like that a lot of idiotic, obnoxious, narcissistic, spoiled and overpaid actors are being put out of work.

The only information I think you're missing here is that the deal that the WGA gets will set the bar for the SAG and DGA deals that are coming up.

As the occasional writer of scripts, and as an Actor and artist in general, I have to support my fellow artists in their push to be payed for Their Intellectual Property. That's one thing that a lot of the mainstream public don't understand. Yes, some tv is done on commission ((Hence Fux's owning of the rights to Firefly, they had Joss on contract)), so it is owned by the commissioners, but a good amount is done by the writers not contractually obligated to write x number of episodes for y shows ((I generalize as I don't have my figures in order at the moment)).

I just wish that I lived closer to L.A. ((And New York for that matter, 'cause the stagehands need solidarity too.)). If you're there, give some writers support for me!

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, November 26, 2007 6:07 AM

I hope they both lose and the industry crumbles.

This will only be temporary and from the ashes will be reborn the Phoenix. A collective of fresh, young, brilliant minds which will take entertainment to heights we've yet to see.

Like I said in another thread... it's getting so that almost any joe schmuck with 5k can make some killer special effects, and it won't be long till the home comptuer allows us to do what Hollywood is capable of now.

The industry model is completely obsolete and by their own admission they no longer make anymoney once everyone gets their cut.

Boo Hoo.... Good riddance.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

CREVANREAVER

Saturday, December 1, 2007 3:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
Frankly, the writers are really the ones being selfish. Right now, they are putting a lot of production crew members out of work. That's what's dumb about strikes in general; financially, they hurt many people that have nothing to do with the issue.

Just as I wrote...

Nonwriting staff members of "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" became the latest casualties of the four-week Hollywood writers strike when they were laid off Friday, November 30, 2007.

NBC confirmed the layoffs at the show without providing further details.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20071130/D8T887HG1.html

HOSTILE17NOW

Saturday, December 1, 2007 4:10 AM

I want the friggin thing to drag-on and on so the networks can fall..

and cave-in to great minds like joss/tim/drew/fury/dug/etc. to save us from this hell whole of what passes for entertainment the networks have forced on to
american people. - the ones who have minds
anyway!

most people not just kids don't care these days

about comic book folk. like myself, nevermind anything else ..

our time is never up Faith we pay for every thing. ___[Angel]

STORYMARK

Saturday, December 1, 2007 4:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s the nature of the business. If you want job security, you need to go into a field where you are always in high enough demand, such as medicine, but most of those kinds of jobs require a degree of commitment that many people would rather avoid, and that’s why they have high job security.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Scripts, good one at least, do not get written overnight. They require a great deal of work, usually done with no guarantee of payment. And few writers reach a level of success (by which I mean making enough to pay a mortgage) for many years. It takes a hell of a lot of commitment for someone to seek a creer in writing - a long shot job with long hours, little pay (except for a small percentage), and low recognition.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, December 4, 2007 7:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s the nature of the business. If you want job security, you need to go into a field where you are always in high enough demand, such as medicine, but most of those kinds of jobs require a degree of commitment that many people would rather avoid, and that’s why they have high job security.
Spoken like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Scripts, good one at least, do not get written overnight. They require a great deal of work, usually done with no guarantee of payment. And few writers reach a level of success (by which I mean making enough to pay a mortgage) for many years. It takes a hell of a lot of commitment for someone to seek a creer in writing - a long shot job with long hours, little pay (except for a small percentage), and low recognition.

If we assume we can take what you claim with any degree of confidence, then it sounds to me like I do know exactly what I’m talking about then, doesn’t it? If you want job security, go into a field that has job security. If you decide to go into a field that any number of fans on FFF.net can do just well in their spare time, don’t expect me to shed any tears for you, because you suddenly discover the pays not reliable. That’s always going to be the nature of that kind of work. It’s the same reason why the kid who mows me lawn doesn’t make 80 grand a year - because any idiot with a lawn mower can do it.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

RIGHTEOUS9

Tuesday, December 4, 2007 8:39 AM

That's kind of an interesting angle, Finn. Seems to me people will pay what workers are willing to accept, regardless of the field we're talking about. In this case, the professional writers have decided they aren't going to accept what they're getting. If they truly are a dime a dozen, then I'm sure the studios will have no problem hiring out their work to scabs.

"The bachelor" spinoffs, here we come.

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, December 4, 2007 12:42 PM

Some strike...a lot of the "striking" writers are still getting paid. I guess they're getting a little nervous about their upcoming Lexus payments. I wonder if they're "sharing their wealth" with other writers who are not getting paid.

HIXIE129

Tuesday, December 4, 2007 12:59 PM

I want the people to win

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, December 4, 2007 4:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
That's kind of an interesting angle, Finn. Seems to me people will pay what workers are willing to accept, regardless of the field we're talking about. In this case, the professional writers have decided they aren't going to accept what they're getting. If they truly are a dime a dozen, then I'm sure the studios will have no problem hiring out their work to scabs.

I’m pretty sure that they would have no problem hiring out their work to scabs. How many people who write fanfic do you suppose wouldn’t be willing to take money for their work, most of which is as good as most of what I've seen on TV? Of course hiring out to scabs could mean ticking off other unions who might then strike on principle or it could mean alienating themselves from the community when the strike is over, but even still, I suspect that it’s only a matter of time before someone starts hiring out to scabs.

Also if employers were always willing to pay what workers would accept, regardless of the work, then there wouldn’t be any reason for unions or strikes, would there?

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

JAYNEZTOWN

Thursday, March 7, 2024 3:14 AM

Hollywood gears up for another labor battle
https://www.axios.com/pro/media-deals/2024/03/05/hollywood-iatse-contr
act-strike

Is Hollywood Sleepwalking Toward Strike Three?
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/hollywood-str
ikes-crew-people-better-deal-1235830684/
As insiders assure themselves that the industry is too wounded to let another shutdown happen, THR checks in with the crew people battered by last year’s walkout and potentially ready to do it again: "I’m telling you, these people are pissed."

How do you sound natural in the voice that you want to write in?
https://writing.stackexchange.com/questions/69007/how-do-you-sound-nat
ural-in-the-voice-that-you-want-to-write-in

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, March 7, 2024 3:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Hollywood gears up for another labor battle
https://www.axios.com/pro/media-deals/2024/03/05/hollywood-iatse-contr
act-strike

Is Hollywood Sleepwalking Toward Strike Three?
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/hollywood-str
ikes-crew-people-better-deal-1235830684/
As insiders assure themselves that the industry is too wounded to let another shutdown happen, THR checks in with the crew people battered by last year’s walkout and potentially ready to do it again: "I’m telling you, these people are pissed."

How do you sound natural in the voice that you want to write in?
https://writing.stackexchange.com/questions/69007/how-do-you-sound-nat
ural-in-the-voice-that-you-want-to-write-in

Bad move striking right now.

Do any of these people look at The-Numbers.com?

Maybe they should go to China and see if they can get better deals there. China currently has the Top 4 grossing movies worldwide in 2024.

https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-records/worldwide/all-movies/cu
mulative/released-in-2024

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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.