Simon's character journey
POSTED BY: MerryK
UPDATED: Friday, November 9, 2007 09:27
VIEWED: 6937
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wytchcroft - Him punching Mal is more of a byproduct of being incredibly pissed. I'm talking about a completely unexpected, out of the blue act that gets everyone's attention that shows Simon at the breaking point. There's a difference between punching Mal and, say, grabbing a knife off the table, slamming Jayne to the ground and threatening to take his eye out. Read my fanfic THE REPERCUSSIONS OF SHOTGUN TAM. Thats the kind of thing I'm theorizing.
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"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."
Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack
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River was captive in the academy from 14 to 16. Very formative years for humans. Although she is intellectually advanced, emotional growth follows physical maturity rates rather than intellectual. She thought Simon wouldn't come for her. Her parents never did. She must have given up hope during most of those 24 months. I don't see her throwing Simon off like a blanket. She'll stick by him for a long time, even if she does get all better in the head.
Safe is filmed as the 4th episode after Pilot, which was not aired yet. But it was further pushed back from being the 4th episode for viewers to see, to become the 7th episode for viewers to see.
KayLee would be capable of moving on, but would she? She carries such a torch for Simon.
Although Simon's surgical talents are a perishable skill, he already knew from the moment he freed River that all of that life was over.
I would also point out how inimpressive these skills are. This is 500 years in the future, and Bones McCoy would (only a few hundred years in the future) clearly consider Simon's medical practices to be barbaric and rudimentary. The real world already has some of the Star Trek gadgets, only 30-40 years after predicting them, and this verse seems to have only "progressed" in the field of pharmacology. Scenes of Simon pulling out bullets seem to fit more in MASH from the Korean War.
I do find Simon's work in Ariel to be interesting in how he balances all the needs and skills of all the crew to plan for what he wants to do with River.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
A highly skilled trained surgeon staying on to help Mal with petty jobs, on a boat he hates? And, in his spare time he stacks dishes and holds flashlights for Kaylee. Is this the "Cabin Boy Simon” that I personally would love to hire?
LOL!
though he seems to like - or be warming to the family kitchen on serenity (in FF -- post BDM, maybe not) ... no, i don't see it.
he would do dishes with River maybe - because then they wuld be playing a game.
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Originally posted by MerryK:
Now see, I think there's a lot more to Simon than you're giving him credit for, Platonist and Wytchcroft. Being a doctor is his defining identity, but not just because he's knowledgeable about medical issues, but because he cares about people. It's a discredit to him to write him off as River's brother, the doctor.
no no i agree there is much more to Simon -- i have tried to stres myself how much cares for river and for the suffering of others. i think you maybe missed that in my hummungus post.
Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
wytchcroft - Him punching Mal is more of a byproduct of being incredibly pissed. I'm talking about a completely unexpected,
LOL! when i saw the BDM at the movies the whole cinema errupted when Mal got hit (didn't see it coming) - and the article in serenity founds points out that this punch closes the arc from the pilot when mal punches simon.
i've read your fics:)
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryK:
Ah, I see. I guess I'd have to say that that view is a bit idealistic for me to adopt...I can't think of anyone, not to mention any man, who doesn't have more than one interest. Perhaps Simon might be more baggage-loaded than the average man, but no matter who she ends up with, Kaylee's going to have to learn that she can't always be the center of attention.
a difficult lesson for her - she misreads people in relation to what she wants sometimes.
I believe this is Simon's first relationship (nnot necessarily his first experience) - and they often fail. Desppite his good heart Simon is still fairly callow and Kaylee's interest is primarily built on a class dazzled crush. Yes they have moments of real tenderness, i know. but work and river are the priority - Simon woouldn't know how to end a relationship (cause hurt) it would be down to kaylee.
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I see Simon giving lots of attention to those he loves,
that would be River then.
Simon's class and background are a big issue here - but deserve a seperate thread mebbe.
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I read above where it was suggested Simon's attention would be divided and he wouldn't be able to spend enough time on KayLee. Hate to be the one to break the bubble here, but ALL women think that their men don't give them enough attention. As just mentioned, KayLee will have to get used to it. Even if some people might want this to be some big driving plot direction, it's not likely to happen realistically.
I always found KayLee's proximity to Simon to be KayLee's effort mostly.
Simon isn't dumb, and has lost his illusion of how great the Alliance was supposed to be. Would he really trust them enough to return to the Core as a doctor, regardless of what they promised? A promise is only as valid and worthy as those who offer it, or those who could cancel it with prejudice.
The outer worlds are a bit more harsh, rustic, and tho he might find doctor work there, would he really be sure he wouldn't be lynched such as in Safe? Perhaps the most secure place for him really is Serenity, and not only because of River. He probably thinks he can trust them - and he's got the Jayne thing worked out, apparently.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Hate to be the one to break the bubble here, but ALL women think that their men don't give them enough attention. As just mentioned, KayLee will have to get used to it.
but would she want to??? i rarely compare firefly to other whedon shows but the cordy / wesley flame on then flop romance is a good analogy here.
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Even if some people might want this to be some big driving plot direction,
no/one i know - seems a pretty minor plot point.
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I always found KayLee's proximity to Simon to be KayLee's effort mostly.
EXACTLY! and sooner or later that effort will diminish. I'm not some Simon bashing kaylee hater. i just don't see the relationship is workable long term. some shiny new character could sweep kaylee off her feet... in fact i can imagine a rugged new pilot... and all of a sudden mal's gettin jealous now! HE likes the attention too! aint just women.
Quote:
Perhaps the most secure place for him really is Serenity, and not only because of River. He probably thinks he can trust them - and he's got the Jayne thing worked out, apparently.
i agree - Simon would view Serenity as the secure option - this would keep him connected to the 'family' - it's just that for him it's a slow process.
One question i have pondered without answer is - Why didn't Simon take River to Haven - THAT was supposedly SAFE. Only the BDM showed otherwise.
final point - the idea of Simon as Hero is a given - the 9 are all Big Damn Heroes - but he is often positted as a shadow to Mal - doubling being common in poular (myth) shows.
And so it's possible -
but that kind of logic would lead inexorably i fear to season two and a new Anti-River nemesis -
Rockette 'she kicks ass too!' etc gah.
My instinct is to see Saffron as the next shadow to Mal - her arc might follow a line (not unlike Simon's) from suspicion to heroism - but maybe not. I see a lot of common ground in Mal and Saff - which is what draws me to her as a character.
scattered thoughts ahoy!
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I'm still confused as to why Simon can only love one person, his sister...whether or not the relationship would work out long term, I know for a fact that it is possible to have at least two very strong healthy relationships at the same time. River is an obstacle because of how Simon feels about his responsibility to her, but he doesn't have to stop loving his sister to love Kaylee equally.
Simon and Kaylee are effectively "together" at the end of the BDM, even if it's just in the most simple sense of the word. Simon's going to have to stay on for a little, to get his bearings and decide what he wants to do. Kaylee's still going strong about him, and he's paying attention to her, so I don't see a breakup in the near future. I see more difficult troubles for the crew in the future, culminating in an eventual civil war with the Alliance, and in those circumstances, I just don't see Kaylee becoming distracted by some new handsome face. Unless Simon does something very horrible (in her eyes at least), he's going to be her rock in troubled times.
That's the thing they have going for each other, I think: Kaylee needs attention of all kinds, and Simon will give it to her, even if it's just protective. He might have drifted off to do medical stuff away from the crew if no war ever happened, but during a vast upheaval, I don't see either of them moving along. There's plenty of historical evidence to support that even dysfunctional families (which Serenity isn't post-BDM) often draw closer during times of trouble, and realize not to take things for granted. I think both Kaylee and Simon would realize in a crisis that the other person is not someone you find everyday...assuming Simon lets go of some of his responsibility to River, he will be the sort of person Kaylee wants/needs. You might counter with the "he's too attached to his work, Kaylee needs more", but that's hardly something unique to Simon, and also is part of his greatest asset to a S/K relationship. I think Kaylee needs stability, and someone she knows will never run out on her...it's Simon's dedication to everything he cares about that attracts him to her once she's looked past the pretty face, and it's something that I think is enough to keep them going for a long while. Who knows what would happen after the war, but for as long as it lasts, I see Simon and Kaylee as a couple.
Just from a purely stylistic point of view, though, Joss said the couple were "doomed" because they were young and in love. However, he doesn't just break up couples for no purpose, so there would have had to be some asset to the plot in a Simon/Kaylee breakup...that's why I started this thread, to discuss Simon's journey as a character. So I can see them being broken up by events dragging them in different directions, and they never end up back with each other. I can see one of them dying during a war. I just can't see them breaking up because Kaylee wants to "move on".
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"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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I meant KayLee WAS the dominant force of proximity - in the series.
After Ariel, Simon gets the meds figured out for River, just gotta smooth out the rough spots.
Joss states in BDM that River becomes OK after vomiting on Miranda.
So River is mostly OK.
Simon will now have more time with KayLee, and River can watch more.
Hmm. How long did it take River to get from peeper to copilot in BDM? Hmm.
Anyhow, unless KayLee finds Simon a lousy lay and untrainable, I don't see a problem with them staying together. With her natural intuitiveness and his scholarly intelligence, their kids could be wicked smart.
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