Gun Control Spin
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Sunday, November 25, 2007 19:08
VIEWED: 6740
PAGE 5 of 8
Quote:Yeah good luck on that.
As long as I buy American
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Always look upstream.
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Geezer
Some people here believe the 'gun industry' bears NO responsibility. It's ALL personal and individual.
So what I concocted was a hypothetical (I assume you know what that means), used to try and figure out where responsibility might be cultural, legal, or personal.
And indeed, the 'gun industry' does bear some responsibility in the whole question of gun control.
"meat that's not full of chemicals"
Wanted to point out the problem with wasting disease.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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" If you think that the industry will regulate itself if pushed by litigation, then are you for placing some blame at the foot of firearms distributors when the person they sold a gun to goes into a school and executes a classroom of children?"
Nope.
I am saying it would give the manufacturer and the shop legal defense against the idiotic and commonly held "It's all the guns fault" maniacs - by showing that THEY made a good-faith effort to not sell to obvious lunatics.
I am sayin it would be a better solution than government intervention, is all, cause my opinion of the folks who'd sue a weapon manufacturer for misuse of the device, well...
It would be winded, profane and about as offensive to those people as I could possibly make it, but i'm too lazy to type it all out at the moment. 
In all honesty, it's not a bad idea in and for it's own sake.
As for the lunacy I see expressed here...
A huge part of the problem rests with the profound stupidity of folk believing words on paper will stop an established criminal from obtaining and possessing a firearm - I don't know what kind of bizarre mental contortions are required to believe that shite... but I know for sure that I do not subscribe to them.
There's always gonna BE crooks with firearms, it's GONNA happen, ain't no preventin it, ain't no stoppin it - and up against some gangbanger who's gonna have to pull his nine out of them baggy pants to shoot me with it, I rather think a bullet would answer the problem more effectively than politely asking him to hold his water while I call 911 and wait for the cops to arrive.
And sure, the possibility exists even for someone who is armed, of being outgunned or outnumbered, same as if you weren't, and in such a case they better hit me with the first one right between the eyes, cause imma take em with me otherwise.
Look, there's no guarantee of personal safety in a free society, it just can't happen, it's not even possible, ok - so all *I* am asking, all that I desire, is the right to have an effective argument at hand when that ugly reality everyone seems to be denying, rears it's head in my path.
And what you are saying to that, collectively, is that you do not trust me to defend myself, that I should hand that simple, basic, unalienable right over to the state, which has proven time and time again to be a damned piss-poor caretaker of such things.
It's an insult beyond measure, and if you wanna play that game with me, let's go quid pro quo on it, theoretically, ok ?
I'll hand over the piece, YOU hand over your drivers license and car keys.
You don't trust me to defend myself, I won't trust you to drive a car.
And while you're busy suing colt arms, I'll be busy suing ford, and we can all snark at each other as the state shovels us into little rubber rooms between our corporate service and we're all nice and safe...
It's insane, and I am done discussing it - we're not gonna agree, there doesn't seem to be one speck of common ground to meet on, besides the fact that I view with intense suspicion and downright hostility anyone who would want me rendered helpless by their edict.
Wouldn't you ?
-Frem
BTW - That's a nice piece, Geeze it's got potency, versatility and more range than one would expect, thanks for the reply.
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Coming from different places, we agree on the fact that the gun industry needs to be proactive and forgo a small amount of profit to keep guns out of the hands of the criminal, the irresponsible, the inept, and the insane.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Coming from different places, we agree on the fact that the gun industry needs to be proactive and forgo a small amount of profit to keep guns out of the hands of the criminal, the irresponsible, the inept, and the insane.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
I'm with you there, Rue. Unfortunately, that's the beginning of what gun control advocates wish to accomplish. It is not the end. Equally unfortunate, it can be the means to that end.
If everyone would agree to my right to keep and bear arms, I could agree with reasonable controls over that right.
SignyM, I think I remember reading a post from you where you suggest that gun owners get organized. I assure you, the need to organize has been recognized, and caused us to band together in organizations. Some of the organizations we embrace fully, some hesitantly. They are a means to political power, the power to protect our rights.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Coming from different places, we agree on the fact that the gun industry needs to be proactive and forgo a small amount of profit to keep guns out of the hands of the criminal, the irresponsible, the inept, and the insane.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
I'm with you there, Rue. Unfortunately, that's the beginning of what gun control advocates wish to accomplish. It is not the end. Equally unfortunate, it can be the means to that end.
If everyone would agree to my right to keep and bear arms, I could agree with reasonable controls over that right.
SignyM, I think I remember reading a post from you where you suggest that gun owners get organized. I assure you, the need to organize has been recognized, and caused us to band together in organizations. Some of the organizations we embrace fully, some hesitantly. They are a means to political power, the power to protect our rights.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:Such as....?
SignyM, I think I remember reading a post from you where you suggest that gun owners get organized. I assure you, the need to organize has been recognized, and caused us to band together in organizations.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
3) The gun seller should have exercised better judgment - I mean really, selling an AK-47 to a young kid is just inviting trouble - but in the society YOU propose, they have NO responsibility.
(Please understand I have not begun to take the time to read all of these posts, so if I cover a few already covered points, etc. I appologize in advance.)
Also understand that the details are everything in this article... The Miami police are blaming the expiration of the Assault Weapons Ban on the flood of illegal AK-47s? Not illegal to own(if they were made prior to 1986 and in the registered within the grace period in compliance with the NFA amendment of that year), I mean illegal to IMPORT.
If those are full auto AK's "hitting the streets", the argument that legitimate gun dealers that cross their "T"s, dot their "I"s, endure regular inspection from the BATFE and what is in effect a basic forfeiture of their Fourth Amendment rights, If you are saying that these people are in any way responsible for the deaths of some officers, then you really to get schooled on firearms laws in the US.
Long story short - the American firearms industry has nothing to do with AK-47's - for that you are going to need to look to China, Russia, Romania, and whoever it is that has figured out how to SMUGGLE them into Florida. I( say smuggle, because Customs won't allow their import, and FEDERAL FRAKIN LAW won't allow their sale. Regan signed that law into effect for Pete's sake.
The assault weapons ban did not cover the automatic AK-47s. It had no effect on this, whatsoever.
And I just realized that this is Miami we're talking about. Oh gee, assault weapon crime in major entry city for cocaine traffickers. To quote Gilbert Gottfried, I might have a heart attack and die of NOT-SURPRISE.
I’m never serious. Serious means something bad is about to happen.
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I think the gun 'industry' (however you want to parse it) should be held liable for gun deaths. It's their product after all. Once they have a few big lawsuits they'll be more careful about not losing too much money. In practice though what you will need are minimum standards and an impartial arbiter of fault. You wouldn't want the (self-insured) industry deciding on whether or not to pay a claim or how much is reasonable prevention.
Should we start holding the car industry responsible for people using a car a a murder weapon? Why not, it's their product, they should have checked a bit more thoroughly before they sold the car to someone.
How about the chemical industry? People are poisoned every year, and if they didn't make household cleansers, if would be much tougher, have to start using paint or maybe breaking old mercury thermometers. It's their product, so we should hold them accountable.
You know we should go after the makers of five gallon buckets like paint comes in - you know how many toddlers drown every year in those?
No, really, I can totally see where you're coming from. A few lawsuits and we can save the world.
Or just maybe we can look at this from a common sense perspective - the person that pulled the trigger is responsible for pulling the trigger. The fat kid should stop guzzling 64OZ big gulps. Drunk drivers are responsible for hitting the road plastered. Cigarette smokers are the ones that held the cancer stick to their own lips and amazingly got cancer. In short the reason that we only hold the individual responsible is because THEY ARE THE ONES THAT DID IT.
I’m never serious. Serious means something bad is about to happen.
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
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"...If you could organize well enough the beat an army, you could organize well enough to beat someone politically."
What makes you think we're not organized enough to beat someone politically? Remember the 2000 Presidental election? It's beginning to look like WE may have to steal another one.
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