Gun Control Spin
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Sunday, November 25, 2007 19:08
VIEWED: 6740
PAGE 4 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I think you missed my point. I meant that a ban on guns doesn't mean a ban on kitchen knifes.
No. You missed my point. Banning tools because a small precentage of the population misuses them isn't a logical response. Further, it has a disproportinate impact on the majority who use them properly and responsably, and almost no impact on those who willfully misuse them.
Lots of people use the internet to distribute or obtain kiddie porn. Terrorist and racist organizations use it to communicate and plan attacks. Others use it to perpetrate scams and identity thefts. Should we ban the internet, or work to identify and stop those who misuse it?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I think the gun 'industry' (however you want to parse it) should be held liable for gun deaths.
Don't forget the long, pointy kitchen knife 'industry'. And the movies Saw I thru IV should let you know the real impetus behind the power tool 'industry'. How about chainsaws?
God forbid an individual should actually be held responsible for their conduct.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Any 'industry', even the gun industry, will always want to expand its market. Kinda like the alcohol and tobacco industries did for many decades advertizing to children and even selling to them under the counter (the AT in ATF 
). Between rampant and irresponsible sales and a ban there is middle ground where the gun industry IS responsible.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
How about the fast food industry for fatal heart attacks.
Done all the time
http://www.healthcastle.com/trans_fat_burgerking.shtml
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2070417&page=1
Thanks for the links, although that wasn't my point.
I believe Geezer said it best but let me add my 2 cents. Why accept personal responsibility for your actions when you can blame someone else. That just don't sit right with me for some reason. If you want to smoke and drink and eat fatty foods all day so be it. Just don't come crying to me when they cut the wall out of your house to take you to the hospital for chemo followed by a liver transplant.
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It's not so simple. Let's say you have NO regulation on gun sales. Some grade-school kid brings his paper route money and buys an AK-47 and guns down the school (stay with me).
WHO is responsible ?
1) The kid is not of legal (or mental) age to exert that kind of responsibility.
2) The parents would traditionally be though of as 'accountable' but as anyone knows, even if you have an idea your kid might be unstable you can't keep them chained up in the house - even if you try. And there's no law against the kid getting a gun of any type.
3) The gun seller should have exercised better judgment - I mean really, selling an AK-47 to a young kid is just inviting trouble - but in the society YOU propose, they have NO responsibility.
And in real life, they ARE part of the equation, they DO have some responsibility.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Yanno, I find it passing strange:
The dollar is sinking like a stone (only faster), we've turned into a debtor nation and lost a lot of manufacturing, the world is overpopulated like crazy, the Bush government has us in a quagmire and thinks it's OK to snoop on anybody without a warrant, and toss people into prison w/o a writ ... and you're talking about using GUNS to solve your problems?????
Bad schools? GET A GUN!
Corporate tyranny? GET A GUN!
Type II diabetes? GET A GUN!
"Arms" are not the end-all and be-all solution that y'all seem to think. They're not even terribly effective for self-defense, unless you're well-practiced (which most of us aren't). I don't particularly want the army and police to have a monopoly on "arms", but unless you guys can get together and organize you'll just be another loony-tune with a gun.
Sheesh.
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Always look upstream.
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Hmm...
I'm not sure we advocate having guns for any of those reasons.
Bad Schools? Administer proper funding, or enable people to pay for the private school of their choosing.
Corporate Tyranny? I'm not sure what specifically you mean. Enron? I bet there's a lot of people who WISH guns were the solution to that debacle. I remember people saying the Execs should be lined up and shot.
Type II Diabetes? Diet and Exercise, then pills, then insulin.
Target shooting? Get a Gun!
Personal Defense? Get a Gun!
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
It's not so simple. Let's say you have NO regulation on gun sales.
Let's say that's not reasonable under most anyone's world-view.
There is already regulation of gun sales based on age and prior criminal record. Even Fremd the anarchist supports some sort of proficiency qualification, and I'd suspect that most folk understand that parents have some responsibility to supervise their children.
Quote:
Some grade-school kid brings his paper route money and buys an AK-47 and guns down the school (stay with me).
Can't stay with you, since this isn't possible based on current law, or the generally accepted concept that parents are responsible for their children's behavior.
Quote:
WHO is responsible ?
1) The kid is not of legal (or mental) age to exert that kind of responsibility.
True. But since the kid can't buy an AK-47 under current law, it's a moot point. If the parents buy one for the kid,and he/she wastes the school, it's pretty much the fanily's fault.
Quote:
2) The parents would traditionally be though of as 'accountable' but as anyone knows, even if you have an idea your kid might be unstable you can't keep them chained up in the house - even if you try. And there's no law against the kid getting a gun of any type.
Sorry, but there is law against the kid buying an AK-47, just as there is a law against the kid driving a car at 14. You're proposing a completely spurious scenario which has nothing to do with a total gun ban.
Quote:
3) The gun seller should have exercised better judgment - I mean really, selling an AK-47 to a young kid is just inviting trouble - but in the society YOU propose, they have NO responsibility.
Nope. You're the one proposing that parents and others have no responsability. I'm just opposing a flatout ban.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yanno, I find it passing strange:
The dollar is sinking like a stone (only faster), we've turned into a debtor nation and lost a lot of manufacturing, the world is overpopulated like crazy, the Bush government has us in a quagmire and thinks it's OK to snoop on anybody without a warrant, and toss people into prison w/o a writ ... and you're talking about using GUNS to solve your problems?????
I'm talking about using guns to shoot holes in paper from far distances and to get my family meat that's not full of chemicals.
As long as I buy American, the dollar still buys pretty much the same amount of stuff. Overpopulation will solve itself in unfortunate ways. The Bush government will be gone in 14 months and we'll see if the Dems will be less quagmiry.
Let's not react to short-term events with decisions that'll impact us forever.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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I hope your gun aim is better than your logical aim. Unless you guys organize you're just a fart in am empty pair of pants. Otherwise, you're just a nut with a gun. Easily picked off. But somehow the just owning a gun seems to be important?
A gun is just a symbol. It's not a real answer to much of anything. If you could organize well enough the beat an army, you could organize well enough to beat someone politically. The point is to organize. But y'all are so wedded to individualism that you'll hang onto an outmoded symbol to prop up your dysfunctional ideology.
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Always look upstream.
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