General Discussions

Joss' New Series

POSTED BY: FollowMal
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 07:51
VIEWED: 28409
PAGE 11 of 12

THESOMNAMBULIST

Saturday, November 3, 2007 9:22 PM

Good to see the master will be flexing his writer/produce/director muscles once again for TV. Nothing wrong with that.

The premise has great scope too. Given the characterization sounds like Joss is setting up a show that can go non-linear.

My only concern is the element of 'Everyones fantasy'.

www.cirqus.com

EMMAZULE

Saturday, November 3, 2007 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Raycheetah:
I coulda sworn Joss had vowed never to go back to those F*X asshats?

You mean the asshats who USED to work at Fox?

Read the Ausiello Report's note on the show.

Joss openly said that it's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE from the ones that canned Firefly that are working there now - the network is handled by different people than it was five years ago. The fact that the previous staff made him do a second pilot while giving him only a weekend to write it, while this staff is giving him seven episodes without seeing a script - just seeing the pitch and the fact that Joss is on it - speaks VOLUMES about the changes. I would in fact not be surprised at all if the employees responsible for canning Firefly - which turned out to be a cult cash cow and got huge ratings for ANOTHER network in a different lineup - got quietly, invisibly sacked for incompetence at losing a potential Buffy-esque goldmine and making a valuable, fanbase-beloved creator leave the network entirely.

You all also seem to think that Fox won't relentlessly advertise things it actually WANTS to succeed - and thus far, it sounds like the kind of production deal that a bunch of total Whedon fanboys would make. Sometimes shows are cancelled or renewed based on ratings - and sometimes they aren't. This show already clearly has better support than Firefly did.

My only concern is if it starts doing real well, so well that they stupidly try to move it around and then lose their audience, which is sort of what happened with Tru Calling, as far as I can tell.

But keep in mind one very, very important thing that Tim Minear (and Tim Kring of Heroes, for that matter) learned quite quickly:

If you know exactly how many episodes you WILL have, you can work around it. You can tell a complete arc, but with an open ending that allows continuation, having your cake and sure, being hungry afterwards but you're not starving are you? People lament what happened to Wonderfalls, but let's not forget that part of the show's brilliance cames exactly from Minear knowing he only had so many episodes guaranteed, and WORKING with that. As a writer myself, I guarantee I would in his shoes be jumping for JOY at getting more than one episode right off the bat, and knowing exactly how many I was getting to start with. So...

EVERYONE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT FOX AS IF THE NETWORK NEVER CHANGES ITS EMPLOYMENT ROSTER, AND AS IF KNOWING THE EXACT NUMBER OF EPISODES HE GETS TO START WITH IS SOME SORT OF BAD THING. THANK YOU.

Quote:

Did his commitment for seven episodes, half the number filmed of Firefly, include a commitment to air them in the right ruttin' order? No time slot shell-game? No pre-emptions? Well, again, seven eps is a smaller target to hit with the usual F*X shenanigans... Mebbe.

That's a valid complaint... but how do you know they WILL do that? They don't always. I'm not saying they never do - they're infamous for it, for a reason - but they don't ALWAYS do it. Look at The Simpsons for instance. That thing's always been treated right. Or the X-Files? It's only time-slot switch turned out to be a good thing!

Quote:

Mebbe that's why he only got seven. Mebbe shoulda only got 2.

I love ya man, but you're an idiot, because you're completely ignoring the fact that they are actually giving him a full mini-season WITHOUT SEEING AN ACTUAL SCRIPT YET.

That is WAY more than they ever did for Firefly. It is, as noted by someone else and intensely ignored anyway by everyone in the gorram thread, COMPLETELY UNPRECEDENTED IN ALL OF TV HISTORY! This is not only more than they did for Firefly, it's more than anyone's EVER done in TV for any creator.

And from Joss' standpoint, even if the series tanks, he'll have gotten a full mini-season to tell a complete arc. Instead of getting really, really excited about this cool new idea and getting it killed when they don't like his pilot (and openings of that nature are very hard to pull off well, to boot).

Keep in mind,

EMMAZULE

Saturday, November 3, 2007 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownBug:

it sounds dreadful, simply dreadful

and im a little tired of Joss "empowering" women, its becoming a one trick pony.

Strong female characters is BAD now?

Bzuh? Since when?? And you haven't seen the damn thing yet.

Plenty of writers reuse themes, without the new stuff being a complete copy of their old stuff. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being silly.

And the River comparisons! Oh lord.

Are there thematic simularities? Bet yer bottom dollar there are. Is it the same?

Uh, no. This is more like if the Academy had actually FINISHED the project, and it only went wrong AFTER. It's a different take on the concept. And she's apparently not a telepath, either.

So, let's stop crying copycat, too, OK?

~Emma

WYTCHCROFT

Saturday, November 3, 2007 10:28 PM

Emma - u RULE!:)

WEREDOOMED

Saturday, November 3, 2007 10:52 PM

Before I get all excited about F*X committing to 7 eps...I still remember a little show called "Drive" that had 6 eps made and cancelled after 4.

RAYCHEETAH

Saturday, November 3, 2007 11:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmmaZule:

Quote:
Originally posted by Raycheetah:
I coulda sworn Joss had vowed never to go back to those F*X asshats?

You mean the asshats who USED to work at Fox?

Read the Ausiello Report's note on the show.

Joss openly said that it's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE from the ones that canned Firefly that are working there now - the network is handled by different people than it was five years ago. The fact that the previous staff made him do a second pilot while giving him only a weekend to write it, while this staff is giving him seven episodes without seeing a script - just seeing the pitch and the fact that Joss is on it - speaks VOLUMES about the changes. I would in fact not be surprised at all if the employees responsible for canning Firefly - which turned out to be a cult cash cow and got huge ratings for ANOTHER network in a different lineup - got quietly, invisibly sacked for incompetence at losing a potential Buffy-esque goldmine and making a valuable, fanbase-beloved creator leave the network entirely.

You all also seem to think that Fox won't relentlessly advertise things it actually WANTS to succeed - and thus far, it sounds like the kind of production deal that a bunch of total Whedon fanboys would make. Sometimes shows are cancelled or renewed based on ratings - and sometimes they aren't. This show already clearly has better support than Firefly did.

My only concern is if it starts doing real well, so well that they stupidly try to move it around and then lose their audience, which is sort of what happened with Tru Calling, as far as I can tell.

But keep in mind one very, very important thing that Tim Minear (and Tim Kring of Heroes, for that matter) learned quite quickly:

If you know exactly how many episodes you WILL have, you can work around it. You can tell a complete arc, but with an open ending that allows continuation, having your cake and sure, being hungry afterwards but you're not starving are you? People lament what happened to Wonderfalls, but let's not forget that part of the show's brilliance cames exactly from Minear knowing he only had so many episodes guaranteed, and WORKING with that. As a writer myself, I guarantee I would in his shoes be jumping for JOY at getting more than one episode right off the bat, and knowing exactly how many I was getting to start with. So...

EVERYONE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT FOX AS IF THE NETWORK NEVER CHANGES ITS EMPLOYMENT ROSTER, AND AS IF KNOWING THE EXACT NUMBER OF EPISODES HE GETS TO START WITH IS SOME SORT OF BAD THING. THANK YOU.

Quote:

Did his commitment for seven episodes, half the number filmed of Firefly, include a commitment to air them in the right ruttin' order? No time slot shell-game? No pre-emptions? Well, again, seven eps is a smaller target to hit with the usual F*X shenanigans... Mebbe.

That's a valid complaint... but how do you know they WILL do that? They don't always. I'm not saying they never do - they're infamous for it, for a reason - but they don't ALWAYS do it. Look at The Simpsons for instance. That thing's always been treated right. Or the X-Files? It's only time-slot switch turned out to be a good thing!

Quote:

Mebbe that's why he only got seven. Mebbe shoulda only got 2.

I love ya man, but you're an idiot, because you're completely ignoring the fact that they are actually giving him a full mini-season WITHOUT SEEING AN ACTUAL SCRIPT YET.

That is WAY more than they ever did for Firefly. It is, as noted by someone else and intensely ignored anyway by everyone in the gorram thread, COMPLETELY UNPRECEDENTED IN ALL OF TV HISTORY! This is not only more than they did for Firefly, it's more than anyone's EVER done in TV for any creator.

And from Joss' standpoint, even if the series tanks, he'll have gotten a full mini-season to tell a complete arc. Instead of getting really, really excited about this cool new idea and getting it killed when they don't like his pilot (and openings of that nature are very hard to p

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

JWHEDONADDICT

Sunday, November 4, 2007 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
jeez I get the feeling that some of you would rather see Joss unemployed forever rather than gamble on Fox...
and let's face it: Fox are the only ones signing our people, and gambling their money.

Thank you Embers for being the voice of reason!

***********************************************

"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse

"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass

for Joss

JWHEDONADDICT

Sunday, November 4, 2007 12:55 AM

Quote:

More importantly, since Joss has returned to TV(!), did this include a commit from F*X to resurrect the show we REALLY want to see?

More importantly, the show I REALLY want to see is anything Joss creates.

Quote:

Sure, the new show will garner fans; I am more than a little annoyed that it is taken for granted that the pre-existing Buffy fanbase (yeah, I know, Eliza Dushku) is going to back this. What about the Browncoats? I guess we don't count? Or, did they kinda mebbe figger that we wouldn't be standin' at the back door, cunnin' hats in our hands, wonderin' about OUR show, OUR BDHs?

'annoyed that it's taken for granted that pre-existing Buffy fanbase is going to back this?' Of course we are!!! It's pretty obvious how little you actually know about us 'pre-existing Buffy fans'...we support our people just as much as Browncoats do. In fact, we've been doing it longer than you, so PLEASE get over yourself.

Quote:
And let's not forget the folks like myself, who tried Firefly in the first place in part because it was "from the guy that made Buffy! I like Buffy... it had good dialogue and a great sense of humor about itself".

My sentiments exactly.

***********************************************

"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse

"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass

for Joss

RAYCHEETAH

Sunday, November 4, 2007 1:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
Quote:

More importantly, since Joss has returned to TV(!), did this include a commit from F*X to resurrect the show we REALLY want to see?

More importantly, the show I REALLY want to see is anything Joss creates.

Quote:

Sure, the new show will garner fans; I am more than a little annoyed that it is taken for granted that the pre-existing Buffy fanbase (yeah, I know, Eliza Dushku) is going to back this. What about the Browncoats? I guess we don't count? Or, did they kinda mebbe figger that we wouldn't be standin' at the back door, cunnin' hats in our hands, wonderin' about OUR show, OUR BDHs?

'annoyed that it's taken for granted that pre-existing Buffy fanbase is going to back this?' Of course we are!!! It's pretty obvious how little you actually know about us 'pre-existing Buffy fans'...we support our people just as much as Browncoats do. In fact, we've been doing it longer than you, so PLEASE get over yourself.

Quote:
And let's not forget the folks like myself, who tried Firefly in the first place in part because it was "from the guy that made Buffy! I like Buffy... it had good dialogue and a great sense of humor about itself".

My sentiments exactly.

***********************************************

"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse

"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass

for Joss

Again, my apologies for not having apologized effectively enough in my last post.

All my comments were in reference to F*X. I meant no slight to the members of ANY fanbase; I merely found the idea troubling that F*X might take the Buffy fans for granted as a viewer base, as if they might not remember the (now revealed as incorrectly interpreted by me) cancellation of their show (not) by F*X.

I have learned that the basis of my statements was flawed, and, I acknowledge that the Buffy fandom doesn't necessarily share the same cause for distrust (as a discrete fan group) of F*X as the FF flans. I was, perhaps, guilty, in my vent against F*X, of irrationally attributing to that network an exploitative attitude toward the Buffy fans whom I (again, erroneously) believed had been wronged, as the FF flans were.

As for the Browncoats, I cannot escape the bitter feeling that F*X holds our younger, and, less-established flandom in less (or, no) regard, since they have not taken us seriously enough to do more than rake in the cashy money from all the DVD sales of a show they decided wasn't good enough to continue broadcasting. If we were of any significance to F*X, I would like to think that they might act upon Joss' stated desire to do more with FF.

Yes, I understand that FF was expensive to make, though, there are far more guaranteed viewers, now. Yes, our BD Cast is scattered and working elsewhere... The list of obstacles goes on and on. I acknowledge, too, that I am not omniscient, and, can only speculate on what might be going on behind closed doors at F*X. I do, however, sincerely doubt it has anything to do with our BDHs. That's much likelier to happen at Universal.

I dun think it's really necessary to apologize for, or, to explain my statements, any further.

At any rate... mebbe I'll just bow outta this thread.

It's a real shame how folks take things so personally, that they have to get up-in-arms about things others say. Me, I dun take it personally; I'm not that thin-skinned. But, I really don't have anything more to say, 'cept, again, I'm sorry to have riled anyone.

Y'all be nice to each other.

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=
The enjoyment of any good thing is only enhanced by sharing it with others.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=30176

SAMEERTIA

Sunday, November 4, 2007 3:15 AM

*reads*

*re-reads*

*goes and reads all articles ideas, etc*

*Re-opens file on desktop entitled "ChinaDoll"*
MFTHRMFFGLKJSDFODJEEEEEEEEEEE

JOSS! How the ruttin' hell does he DO That?
First- Serenity- nearly a carbon copy of my half-finished sci-fi novel. Now this? A Dollhouse?

*sighs*
The problem is, no matter where I was taking the idea of a group of women brainwashed into being 'shells', Joss and Eliza's idea sounds three-gazillion times sharper and more... well.. strange...than anything I could have come up with. So I cannot be wounded- I actually feel TRIUMPHANT! YAYA!!!!!!!!! A NEW JOSS Show! With Eliza!

GO JoSS!

*relables file, and makes note to add massive erotica segments and strange gothic flashback twists so that people don't think I stole it.*