Joss' New Series
POSTED BY: FollowMal
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 6, 2007 07:51
VIEWED: 28409
PAGE 12 of 12
Hmmm. It seems as though Joss has stayed true to creating shows that have titles which sound like they could be for kids, though, of course, aren't. Good for him.
It's great that Joss is doing a new series- that's a given. I probably would have preferred a new series to include an entirely new cast of people... To be entirely honest, Eliza Dushku has never been my favourite Whedon actress. There are a lot of other actresses Joss has worked with I would prefer him to be doing a new series with. Not to say that I don't like Eliza, I watched the first few episodes of 'Tru Calling' just because she was in it but couldn't stand to watch anymore. I've been told it got better though.
The actual premise of the series does sound quite interesting. I won't lie; it doesn't particularly excite me. Then again, neither did Firefly when I first heard about that. I wonder if it's a coincidence that the main character's name is 'Echo', which relates to the main theme of the series of how the 'dolls', or whatever they are, are supposed to become another person to fulfill a fantasy (thus they become 'Echoes'). I also wonder if the others have names like that.
And, also, the people who are bitching about Fox really need to get over it, because I think Joss has.
Quote:
it sounds dreadful, simply dreadful
and im a little tired of Joss "empowering" women, its becoming a one trick pony. Honestly his best female character was Zoe, no special powers, no abilities just a strong soulful woman who had seen a lot in life. I have no interest in this charmed/river/total recall teenfest. And on Fox ? Are words becoming meaningless.
Im gonna take my epsodes of firefly and treasure them but for me this dance is over.[
Worst post ever.
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Quote:
it sounds dreadful, simply dreadful
and im a little tired of Joss "empowering" women, its becoming a one trick pony. Honestly his best female character was Zoe, no special powers, no abilities just a strong soulful woman who had seen a lot in life. I have no interest in this charmed/river/total recall teenfest. And on Fox ? Are words becoming meaningless.
Im gonna take my epsodes of firefly and treasure them but for me this dance is over.[
Worst post ever.
I originally started to post something bitchy about it when I first saw it the other day, then I decided ultimately to just let the stupidity speak for itself.
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"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse
"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass
for Joss
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raycheetah:
I have learned that the basis of my statements was flawed, and, I acknowledge that the Buffy fandom doesn't necessarily share the same cause for distrust (as a discrete fan group) of F*X as the FF flans. I was, perhaps, guilty, in my vent against F*X, of irrationally attributing to that network an exploitative attitude toward the Buffy fans whom I (again, erroneously) believed had been wronged, as the FF flans were.
Buffy had seven years and while it was very sad to see it go, most of us agree with Joss, that the story had come to an end. That's not to say I'm not loving the comics, because I am, but the series ended, IMHO, as it should have.
But we were wronged by the WB when Angel was cancelled at least one year too soon (when the ratings were higher than ever, if I remember correctly) because the head of the WB didn't want two vamp shows on the network (another Dark Shadows was supposedly being created for the following season, but it didn't pan out and we still lost our show). The show was 5 years old, but Joss was NOT finished telling the story like he thought he was with Buffy at the time, so I am still very bitter about that, I admit.
Some of us are Veronica Mars fans too and we were wronged not by the CW (who's head was actually a fan of VM) but by the head of CBS, who only cared about the ratings, not the fans or the fact that it was a quality show. Apparently the gorram Pussycat Dolls were more important than VM.
So I know something about bitterness and being passionate about a show that gets abruptly cancelled. I started watching FF when it first aired because I already had big love and respect for Joss (although I wasn't into westerns or sci-fi---and Nathan was still Joey Buchanan from OLTL to me) and I enjoyed it but I didn't fall in love with it until I saw the eps. in order on DVD. I think starting with "The Train Job" kind of made it hard to immediately like. Not that I didn't enjoy the ep. eventually, but not as a start to the series.
Anyway, as much as I came to love FF, and Buffy and Angel, I love Joss Whedon more. He gave me (us) this amazing gift, by sharing these three wonderful worlds, and I will follow him anywhere...ABSOLUTELY!!!
Well, that about sums it up for me.
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"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse
"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass
for Joss
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The premise for the show seems interesting, at least it's not yet another cop/investigation drama, or a spy flick, or any of the other ideas that have been repeated 1000 times over. I'll give this show a fair chance because I like the premise, Joss also gives it some extra credit. As for his decision to return to the fools at FOX, he knows exactly what he's getting himself into I'd wager, which is why he got this kind of deal from the outset. He's being very cautious, only touching them with a 92 foot pole. It's likely that this agreement also includes an excellent locked time slot and the episodes being viewed in their proper order,fixing everything that went wrong with Firefly's brief run.
As for the argument that Doll House's main character will be similar to River, that seems like missing a lot of what that character is about, it's only in Serenity that River becomes the "once broken but now empowered woman who kicks ass", in the series I found that you could relate to her (and Simon by extension) if A: You have or know someone who has metal health issues/disorders. B: You've dealt with chronic illness or health issues that are difficult to treat. It's been my experience that a character with those kinds of issues (on that level) doesn't have a major role in a show or movie often. The closest you usually get is "teen ANGST"(tm). So if this new show deals with some of those things again I won't mind at all. Joss will stop writing fantastical empowered women when people stop asking him why he does that. (or rather why he writes strong female characters in general.)
But perhaps I'm just a sucker for wanting to protect the quirky helpless outsider girl.
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The Above is always 100% correct, except when it isn't.
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I happen to agree with a lot of what RayeCheetah has posted. He has his opinion and I respect it and others should too. If someone has a passionate disagreement then post it but I think we can lay off the name calling. If someone wants to enlighten me with things they know or their own opinion I’m ready to listen and share space.
I posted some of my feelings a little further up the thread and got some excellent feedback that made me feel better. I think that we’re really all on the same boat and want Joss to succeed with anything new he starts. We are concerned with what he’s done in the past and anything new in the future. If we weren’t then we wouldn’t care if “Dollhouse” faired well or tanked. Part of that concern deals with the rating numbers new projects generate. Think I’d feel a little safer had it been announced to be on a different network (JUST MY OPINION) and I could be wrong, but then maybe Joss has bargained himself and his people a better deal this time around .In fact I’m 99% sure of it, which is good that he did. Will it lead to other things, other works he has in mind or past projects he wants to look at again, who can tell? I wish him much luck and goodiness. I am a fan of many things but I don’t have to like everything someone does to be a fan. I mean for music lovers do we like every song sung by an artist we are fans of? I remember many, many moons ago a good friend of mine told me I should start watching this show called “Buffy”. I could see he really liked it but then how many of us are bombarded by the passions of others that want us like what they like? I didn’t watch the show at that time and it’s my loss. I will see it in the future guaranteed and may become a big Buffy fan, or Angel fan.
This is a Firefly board and I am a Joss fan due to FF. In my opinion I have never come across a tv series as excellent as this one yet. It hits on all cylinders and that’s why I enjoy it so. I like a lot of shows but most I wouldn’t feel smashed about if they happened to be cancelled. I came after FF was cancelled and I feel terrible about that. I want to ask WHY? Why wasn’t it given more time?
Anyway, just me sounding off a little, Z
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Z: I really agree, and I feel just as passionate about Firefly (and all of Joss' work).
I came to Firefly when it was first aired because I already loved BtVS and I knew that Joss would bring the same brilliant writing to the new project...
It was hard to watch Firefly, it was out of order, and it's hard to 'get' things out of sequence. And it was particularly hard because most of the aired episodes were aired at midnight! The sports came first, and then (for some weird reason) reruns of Friends came next, and finally my local Fox affiliate would run Firefly...after I had called them several times to be sure I would get my VCR set in time.
Anyway my experience was that Firefly was even more brilliant than Buffy (and I still love Buffy a lot), so therefore I have confidence that Dollhouse will be something really amazing.
I just don't see Joss peaking any time soon.
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Quote:
Originally posted by zzetta13:
I happen to agree with a lot of what RayeCheetah has posted. He has his opinion and I respect it and others should too. If someone has a passionate disagreement then post it but I think we can lay off the name calling. If someone wants to enlighten me with things they know or their own opinion I’m ready to listen and share space.
The problem some of us had--forget it I'm speaking for myself only--the problem that I had with Raycheetah was not his difference of opinion, but the way he presented it. It came off sounding disrespectful to Buffy fans. Not coming from that angle, I can understand how you might not see it that way though.
But, he apologized, and for me at least, it's over.
***********************************************
"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse
"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass
for Joss
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Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Z: I really agree, and I feel just as passionate about Firefly (and all of Joss' work).
I came to Firefly when it was first aired because I already loved BtVS and I knew that Joss would bring the same brilliant writing to the new project...
It was hard to watch Firefly, it was out of order, and it's hard to 'get' things out of sequence. And it was particularly hard because most of the aired episodes were aired at midnight! The sports came first, and then (for some weird reason) reruns of Friends came next, and finally my local Fox affiliate would run Firefly...after I had called them several times to be sure I would get my VCR set in time.
Anyway my experience was that Firefly was even more brilliant than Buffy (and I still love Buffy a lot), so therefore I have confidence that Dollhouse will be something really amazing.
I just don't see Joss peaking any time soon.
I had a similar experience as you. When I heard a Joss Whedon show was going to be on, I knew I would watch it, not because of the show's premise, but because it was his show and my love for BtVS. To me, the premise of Dollhouse sounds stupid, but I'll give it a try because it's a Joss show. I thought Drive sounded stupid too, but I watched it because it was Tim's show and Nathan was in it, and I was broken when it was canceled. And, honestly, I'm worried about Dollhouse not lasting too long. However, the things that work best are when Joss and Tim are working together. They just seem to have some major symbiosis going!
I too recall chasing down air times for new episodes that were shown at midnight!
That's one big difference with Fox and other networks. And, heck, hasn't the Bionic Woman pilot been shown at least 3 times now?
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Well, if you're going to apologize RayCheetah, so will I most certainly. >.< I was sooooooooo cranky when I last posted; insomnia + having to work more on the weekend despite ostensibly "getting Saturday and Sunday off" + concerns about making enough money to feed myself every day, let alone get Christmas presents for family this year + seeing a OMG NEW JOSS SHOW is going to be made only to see half the fandom seemingly implode in the bad sense over it = CRANKY CRANKY CRANKY Emma! Sorry you ended up being the main target of the inevitable urge to rant at that point. ^^;;
Now, that said...
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I think I had every right to state my opinions, and, to express my perhaps "acidly" cynical attitude toward F*X. I apologize for obviously getting under your skin, Emma. My opinions were not personal attacks on you, or, on anyone else. Perhaps I did belabor the long-standing and acrimonious stance adopted by the fans of MANY shows (not merely Joss' FF) which, for one reason or another, did not succeed on F*X.
Love, yours was simply the straw that broke the camel's back - harmless in itself, but the last piece falling into place in a perfect storm of wow, could I BE mixing my metaphors more thoroughly here? But you get the idea.
And love, I definitely understand. For one, the only reason I'm a Firefly fan is because of a combination of Word of Mouth advertising, and Universal making the brilliant move of promoting "Serenity" by airing Firefly, in order, in a consistent timeslot! If it hadn't been cancelled - if the WoM had spread enough while it was still on the air - I would have been a fan in late 2002/early 2003, instead of late 2005! It took like, two episodes to make me totally in love with the show (actually, to be accurate, it took one episode for me to know I'd enjoy it - The Train Job - and another to fall utterly head over heels in LOVE - Our Mrs. Reynolds).
And I won't even get started on Wonderfalls - so fantastic that the measly handful of episodes they aired were SO memorable I bought it years later, simply because I found out they'd released all 13 episodes to DVD; the episodes made THAT much of an impression on me.
I'm also apparently one of the few people ever who watched Tru Calling up until the end, where it got totally awesome, and then totally cancelled (not Firefly/Wonderfalls awesome, but a kind of awesome nonetheless, especially if you read what the writers were actually going for - and epic, cosmically huge, overriding moral dilemma built right into the mythology of the series, with no easy answers ever to be given, where the entity that gives people a second chance to live may or may not be the "better" one. And, Jason Priestly actually made for a pretty damn good antagonist...).
I also saw potential in Painkiller Jane that was, admittedly, wasted but could have been reached in a second season. I only grew to love Dead Like Me after it was cancelled and long since on DVD, and on the cheesy "I am so totally a five year old on the inside" front, I was just dismayed to learn that Danny Phantom (which for a kids' cartoon show on Nickelodeon, is not half bad) had gotten canceled when the creator was apparently still full of ideas for another season. Oh, and let's not even get into Birds of Prey, which I fell in love with literally the last night it EVER AIRED, and Invader Zim, another great little cartoon series I only really got into after it was canceled... (here would be a good place to note that Danny Phantom is almost completely absent from DVD releases in English in the U.S. except for like one "greatest hits" type DVD with one episode on it with a bunch of other shows; Invader Zim's DVD set is still incomplete; and Birds of Prey is tangled up in a combination of Executive Apathy Syndrome and music rights issues, to the point where the only place or way to see it in the US is currently on bootleg DVDs ripped from TV broadcasts, or other such illegal methods). Oh, and Raines! On NBC. Anybody remember that one? Midseason replacement, lasted like four brilliant episodes. Sil
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