River's dialogue analyzed
POSTED BY: MerryK
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 09:20
VIEWED: 8734
PAGE 2 of 2
Thanks for that!
Just put it in a chart to see if I could get anything "new". (the "she's getting worse" line by Mal in Ariel seemed a little random to me... her getting worse was something I did not see.)
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Yes, I know where you're coming from. I did this partly to know how to balance how River speaks—not too much crazy or too much literal—but also to know what happens in between episodes. Mal does not think very critically, and a lot of his perceptions are not quite accurate, however, in cases where fear and wariness come in, he's very likely to know if there are more of those going on than before. Also, we only see little glimpses of the characters' lives, especially River's. So when Mal says that she's getting worse, he's probably right—Simon agrees, and we can safely assume that he's going to be in tune to her welfare. So there have to be more crazy episodes going on behind the scenes. In the Train Job, also, Simon talks about how River is cogent one moment and crazy the next...we don't see a lot of that, so it has to be going on behind the scenes. This graphing helped me not so much in what we see as much as what we don't see and should therefore see in fics, especially since I am writing one of those in-between episode fics.
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"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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Yeah, I agree that we have to take Mal at his word. Joss doesn't have time to illustrate everything about the characters, so Mal's: "She's getting worse" and Simon's agreement have to stand for a lot of moments we didn't see.
MerryK, what I like about all this (besides that I'm a scientist and numbers and graphs tickle my brain LOL!) is that you're showing that River's not actually flat-out crazy; she doesn't speak pure nonsense often. (Possibly ever - it could be that we just know enough to understand her rants...) Your point about her being a little weird to start, from childhood... it's a nice insight.
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:
Yeah, I agree that we have to take Mal at his word. Joss doesn't have time to illustrate everything about the characters, so Mal's: "She's getting worse" and Simon's agreement have to stand for a lot of moments we didn't see.
Yeah I agree.
It's just I had a "what? she is?" moment there during my first viewing.
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MerryK, what I like about all this (besides that I'm a scientist and numbers and graphs tickle my brain LOL!) is that you're showing that River's not actually flat-out crazy; she doesn't speak pure nonsense often.
LOL! I know, I just love when people analyze things I love mathematically...even though I don't normally enjoy numbers. Eventually I'll probably go through all the characters' dialogue and do more things like these.
But yeah, River's not "crazy", she's schizophrenic (to give the simple explanation). Schizophrenics don't just spout nonsense, and if you look at everything through their eyes, nothing they say is not based in sense. Their problem is not with intellect, but with their perception of reality and how they express that perception. I see many people berate the Firefly characters for not listening to River and taking her seriously more often, but really, it is only because it is television and we can see a lot of her world that we as viewers know that what she says is not nonsense. It's highly unrealistic to expect the characters to make connections between the apparently random things she says and later things that happen, unless it's something more simple like immediate mind-reading.
And also, it really bugs me to see River written as a one-note character in fanfiction...she's crazy, or she's (post-Miranda) totally sane. I ache for well-rounded River...that's one of the things that makes me write. Not that I'm saying I succeed, though I try very hard to do so, but it's more therapeutic than criticizing other people's stories.
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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I reviewed different types of sentences with my English students this week and it dawned on me that River relies on mostly declarative statements, "Reavers", or "the body can be drained...", she rarely uses interrogative (questions) phrases or imperatives (commands) phrases.
But if you look at her language pattern before the Academy, or during her transition period, she does, "can I still dance?"
Any one else notice this change in her cognition?
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by the way LOVE THE CHART!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
Any one else notice this change in her cognition?
um, yes!...
it really interested me!
i've tried to incorporate that in fics - to subtly reverse the arc - post BDM back to pre-academy(ish) but... can't say i've been toooo successful - and the plots get in the way!!
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Yes, I did notice that. I'm kind of obsessive with noticing style. 
She also seems to avoid using "I" or "me" and talking about herself.
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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Quote:
Originally posted by MerryK:
Yes, I did notice that. I'm kind of obsessive with noticing style.
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
yeah - and she uses the third person to describe herself on occasion... which is over used in fics sometimes.
i have to say Merry i envy your river writing a great deal! i... struggle.
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