Simon in a father role?

POSTED BY: MerryK
UPDATED: Monday, October 15, 2007 16:07
VIEWED: 8723
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MAL4PREZ

Monday, October 15, 2007 3:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryK:
However, I don't think he gave up the idea of making his living by doctoring. I see no reason why he should have given up that, until he saw how badly off River was.

I don't think he gave it up even then! He still is a doctor on the Rim right? Just... on a moving portion of the Rim... sort of...

Of course, we can do nothing but speculate about Simon's intentions before he rescued River, but I have a hard believing that he thought he'd find some normal life, and that River's conditition upset his plans. I don't think he really had plans, because he knew too much was up in the air. And he knew she wasn't 100% - "They're hurting us."

I'm working up a post re introspection for the other thread. You beat me to it LOL! But I'll clarify here that I think Simon is definitely an internal thinker, and I have no problem getting his thoughts laid out. I just don't see the scene you wrote happening *at the time* you place it, because I don't see these issues as tops on his list at that point. I just have a different take, that's all!

Edit to add: how do we learn about Simon without laying out his thoughts? That is the challenge, huh? Joss and Sean manage to do it, so can we if we try hard enough...

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

WYTCHCROFT

Monday, October 15, 2007 3:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryK:
I agree with you that introspection is often a flaw in styling, but I think that when it comes to thinker characters it is the most appropriate. How else do we understand Simon except by what he thinks?

absolutely! - there is often a disjunct between what characters think and what they do that is part of the adult appeal of firefly - which was always gonna be more introspective than... star wars, say.

i know fan fiction as a form - and consequently its readers tend to prefer a more direct approach... (this i guess is part of the appeal of StillFlyng who use script writing instead)...
but getting into a characters mind is something prose can genuinely do (which makes up for the fact that it is not TV or film) - and in so doing add layers to characters. Especially enigmatic ones such as Simon.

It also allows the writer to bring a style of their into a piece. If they are a good writer they'll do it well. If they are a bad writer the piece probably would fail in any case - and as a reader i'll take risk over bland anyday.

of course it has to suit the mood of a given story but i can think of several excellent fics i have read here that have achieved this.

MERRYK

Monday, October 15, 2007 3:35 PM

Of course, considering the wide controversy on what's going on in Simon's head, perhaps Sean and Joss didn't do as perfect a job as they might. I've noticed that people, myself included, will see very clear indications of something in a performance, and think that that was what was intended, even though someone else may have almost the complete opposite opinion but with the same conviction. A lot of Simon can be revealed by what he says and how he says it, because he reveals certain aspects to certain people, and when all those conversations are taken as a whole he is fairly open...but without seeing a little of his thoughts, there's more guesswork than revealing IMHO.

Ah, I see, so it's the time more than the thoughts. That makes perfect sense, as I went back and forth over that scene and how much I wanted Simon to be self-aware.

--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown

WYTCHCROFT

Monday, October 15, 2007 3:42 PM

just don't be losing sight of the quality of your piece!!!

please.

these threads can be helpful but a little dangerous in that regard.

SHINYSEVEN2

Monday, October 15, 2007 3:56 PM

Quote:
That's the root of his heroism, I think. He gave up everything for her, based on those letters. Before he even saw that she was messed up.]

Yup--he took the Ring even though he didn't know the way.

MAL4PREZ

Monday, October 15, 2007 4:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryK:
I've noticed that people, myself included, will see very clear indications of something in a performance, and think that that was what was intended, even though someone else may have almost the complete opposite opinion but with the same conviction.

And isn't it this the thing which makes the show so wonderful? That it isn't spelled out and force fed to us? "This is how it is and it shall never change! This character does this because of this and no other interpretation is valid!" Ew. Who wants that?

As a reader, I want to be given the freedom to interpret, and I want characters who aren't clearly cut and dried. (BTW, this doesn't at all apply to what you posted above! There's no force-feeding involved with your blurb; it's a perfectly valid train of thought for our smarty-pants doctor.)

Quote:
Ah, I see, so it's the time more than the thoughts. That makes perfect sense, as I went back and forth over that scene and how much I wanted Simon to be self-aware.

Yeah, I got side-tracked a bit with the introspection issue... I don't think you've given Simon too much self-awareness in the above, not in general. I can easily see him going through all this reasoning - actually, if it took place a few months later in the context of Kaylee, that he wants to hook up with her but he's too deeply entrenched in this unexpectedly father-like role with River... That I buy totally!

I guess I just see him as more into the doctor/fugitive mentality during the pilot. Not that you should change a thing to please me - you've clearly thought it out!

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