Time to bury the guns...

POSTED BY: Hardware
UPDATED: Thursday, October 11, 2007 15:32
VIEWED: 9033
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FLETCH2

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 3:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:

What did we do in the 1700's? If you think the US is having trouble in Iraq...What would happen when 100 million armed americans say enuff..........

The US army isn't trying to kill civilians in Iraq. If you sent the commanders a message tomorrow saying the gloves were off (and assuming they did not reject it as an illegal order) there would be no insurgency. These same people were just as pissy in Saddams time, they didnt do this to him because back then if someone from a village set off an IED and blew up the army that village would be raised and every man in it killed. Read the charges in Saddam's trial for proof. If the US millitary applied the same scorched earth policy today the insurgency would be over in a year. It worked for Saddam it worked for Hitler and for Stalin and for every tyrant you can name. Trying to equate 1776 with anything else is a mistake

If "the Man" punished neighbourhoods for your bad behavior it wouldnt be long before your neighbours eventually get the message and turn you in to save their kids from the deathsquads.

Rue is right, armed overthrow only works when everybody is behind it and to be honest not everyone would be. The best you could hope for is a glorious symbolic death unreported by state media.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:02 AM

How many of you heard from "mainstream media" about the Miami polices' brutal response to a peaceful anti-CAFTA demonstration? What about the Oakland 25? Who stood up and cheered when Meyer was tasered? Who thinks that "rendering" people is a good idea?

Rue and Fletch2 are right: there are too many people who don't have a clue, and too many of the remainder are so frightened of "terrorism" that they'll submit to almost anything. And the remainder from THAT think that one person with a gun is somehow an Individual Hero when really that person is just attention-seeking.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:27 AM

As to the issue of a felon's constitutional rights - These rights are only protected until by due process of law they are removed. If you are a Felon, then they have been by due process removed.

As to guns for beginners - A Colt model 1911 is pretty much perfect if you can take the recoil ((For those with an aversion, then the Browning Hi-Power is perfect, and you can step up easily if you so wish.))

Or for rifles, a Ruger 10/22 is great for plinking, and if you've got a baddie at the door, I doubt he's going to look at your rifle and think, "Oh, that's only a .22, I'm out packing him." He's going to think "((Insert Expletive here)) He's got a Gun!" Another good little rifle is the Remington 700. You can get it in any sort of cartridge you like, and in most places the gov't won't mind you buying one ((Presuming you've got a clean record &c.))

Also, SIG weapons can generally be brought through anything and then shoot straight and reliable. They're like a Kalashnikov only with Swiss Engineering and Precision.

Speaking of the Swiss, no one hears about violent crime in Switzerland, and for good reason - Practically all males ((And a good number of Females)) between 18 and 49 ((and often older)) have an assault rifle that they're trained to military proficiency on in their closet. Nobody's going to be stupid enough to try and invade your house knowing that. And Military Proficiency in Switzerland means hitting that little cuckoo clock bird every time from 400+metres without damaging the clock. Like Machiavelli Said - "The Swiss, absolutely free, and absolutely well armed."

Can I just ask a question here? For those of you who are ok with gun control ((Even a little)) How do you justify making a bayonet lug illegal? It's easy enough to rig one ((Duct Tape Anyone?)) and yet no one ever hears of a drive by bayoneting, or a robbery at bayonet point. In war, Bayonets make sense, if only as a really last resort psychological thing. In Crime, a gun is enough, and if you really need one, get a knife and some duct tape. Therefore I would challenge the necessity of any ban on bayonet lugs, as they seem to be either down or no-factor.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

MAZAEN

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:33 AM

14 year olds 100 years ago were more mature than 14 or even 22 year olds today. It would not be uncommon for 14 year olds to use rifles to shot bears on farms 100 years ago. Now you'd be lucky if a 14 year old would be given permission by their parents go camping because their parent would be concerned for mozzie bites. The more people are raised by being babied and this includes not using guns, the more immature the adults we become. It's like people are regressing in age as the decades pass. Not having guns is just another side effect of this infantisation of adults phenomenon.

FREDGIBLET

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
Can I just ask a question here? For those of you who are ok with gun control ((Even a little)) How do you justify making a bayonet lug illegal?

Just because I think that a certain amount of gun control is necessary doesn't mean I don't think that a lot of the laws are retarded, almost the entire "Assault Weapons" Ban was incredibly stupid and the few parts that weren't incredibly stupid weren't that much better.

Quote:
and yet no one ever hears of a drive by bayoneting

That would be so cool.

Quote:
or a robbery at bayonet point.

Because it would be a robbery at gun point.

Quote:
In war, Bayonets make sense, if only as a really last resort psychological thing.

I've heard stories of fights where both sides ran out of ammo and instead of using their bayonets they threw rocks at each other.

Quote:
In Crime, a gun is enough, and if you really need one, get a knife and some duct tape. Therefore I would challenge the necessity of any ban on bayonet lugs, as they seem to be either down or no-factor.

Unfortunately gun control advocates usually have no fing idea what they're talking about as evidenced by most of the provisions of the "Assault Weapons" ban.

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 8:39 PM

They throw rocks because the bayonet requires being up close and personal which is obviously dangerous. In certain situations however, the bayonet is invaluable. A friend of mine in Iraq told me that even though he doesn't carry an M16 he carries the bayonet. This is because his M9 is about as effective a weapon as is a well thrown rock.

As to it being robbery at gun point, this is true, so please excuse the hyperbole. But I think my point is still sound. They aren't wanted by anyone but collectors, and therefore should be allowed for said collectors.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

LEADB

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
How many of you heard from "mainstream media" about the Miami polices' brutal response to a peaceful anti-CAFTA demonstration?

This one seriously worries me a bit. I didn't hear about this until I read a reference in these forums. I mentioned it to a couple other folks, and they hadn't heard of it either. Me, I admit, I miss news maybe 3 of 7 days; often 2 or 3 in a row, so I miss things that don't repeat a while.... but something like that, I'd expect to be hearing about not just that day on again off again as the issue plays out. It's like it's dead.

FREDGIBLET

Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
They throw rocks because the bayonet requires being up close and personal which is obviously dangerous.

All the more reason for drive-by bayonetting. Sorry I've got the concept stuck in my head now.

Quote:
In certain situations however, the bayonet is invaluable. A friend of mine in Iraq told me that even though he doesn't carry an M16 he carries the bayonet. This is because his M9 is about as effective a weapon as is a well thrown rock.

IIRC they give officers pistols instead of rifles, if I was an officer in Iraq I'd be bucking for a demotion cause I'd rather get less money and a rifle myself. It'll be interesting to see if they decide to start buying MP7's and issuing them to officers.

ARCLIGHT

Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:11 AM

Read "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross

HERO

Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Lately I've been thinking it's time to bury the guns. Trouble being, there's an old saying that if you think it's time to bury the guns, it's time to dig them up.

Actually, if you wait till spring your guns will come back all shiny new around April or May...especially if its a mild winter and wet spring.

I suggest the Colt .45 Big Sky™ Sunset Coneflower Semi-auto. It comes up in a lovely shade of purple and can hold 12 rounds with 1 in the stem.

H

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