Mal's word no good?
POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Sunday, October 14, 2007 03:26
VIEWED: 18720
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I'm new to this Verse. First saw Serenity and knew I'd enjoy it when credits rolled Jewel's name. Recently watched all the Firefly episodes after catching a few on a SciFi marathon. Got the Serenity CE and Firefly DVDs.
Here's what sticks in my craw. In Safe, Mal tells Simon to go off, DON'T WORRY, WE WON'T LEAVE WITHOUT YOU.
Then, when Book needs Simon's help, they all take off without Simon and River, even after Mal is reminded they are left behind.
Mal is held up as a fairly honorable man, tho he claims not. Supposedly a man of his word. He claims he's loyal to his crew, and although his crew is who "he conjures it to be", he has already stated by this time that Simon is a member of his crew.
Additionally, later on all cast seems to completely ignore this exchange, Mal, Simon, everybody, as if it never happened.
So, is this am inconsistency with different versions of the script?
Is this an error?
Or is this the exposure of Mal really not bieng a trustworthy man, fully capable and willing to betray the trust of those he says can trust him?
Apologies if this has already been discussed.
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I believe it may be related to Mal's experiences in Serenity Valley when everyone was left to die of wounds. The Med ships didn't come until there was hardly anyone left. Because of that experience Mal may have been blinded by Book's situation and only focused on not letting another person under his leadership die of wounds that could be taken care of.
Also, Mal left them temporarily. He came back, found and rescued them. That Mal went back for River and Simon leads me to believe his main focus was on not letting Book die. His decision was one of a commander. River and Simon were kidnapped, but not in any life threatening harm, while Book was shot and bleeding to death.
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OK - let's break this down into bits:
In Safe Mal needs to make a decision - save Book, or find Simon. He can't do both at that time. In fact, he ends up doing the thing that grates the most - he goes to the Alliance for help. This should give an indication of how desperate he was. They do go back to get Simon - they haven't left him stranded. He kept his word, although at the time it didn't seem like it. (This makes for good drama on TV too ;) )
Mal always plays his cards very close to his chest. This is reflected again in 'The Message' when he doesn't explain his plan to Tracey, and things get messy.
The "unless I conjure it to be" line comes (IIRC) from the BDM, rather than the series. I believe that the idea is that Mal's character is significantly changed by Book (his "conscience") and Inara (his "emotions") leaving. Perhaps, in part, he blames Simon for them leaving. Who knows?
The opening sequence in Serenity also establishes that Simon's character has changed since we last saw him in the series.
One of the great things about Mal is the internal struggle that he constantly has between the "dishonourable rogue" he wishes he was, and the honourable man we know him to be.
mrben
"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org
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Welcome to the site JewelStaitefan! Glad to have you here posting with us. 
And good for you getting all the dvds. We can sure use the sales. 
As to your question, I think it is safe to say that Mal did not want to leave River and Simon. He was put into one of those situations all leaders hate, where you have two different people or groups of people that need your help and you have to decide which to help and hope the other can last until you can get to them. Mal made the right choice in that Book was right there in front of him, shot and bleeding out. If they did not leave to get Book medical attention A.S.A.P. he would have died. Mal knew they had no time to waste, so he had to trust that Simon and River could take care of themselves until he could make it back.
The fact that he came back and rescued them in fact shows that his word is good. Mal came in armed and no doubt was willing to die or to kill to secure their safety.
I would say Mal's word is as good as any man's and better than most.
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I have read your replies. I'm afraid I find them akin to rationalizations, perhaps the episode is less fresh in your minds.
I wish I could check and quote, but all my copies are loaned out now. I will try recollection.
I thouight it quite clear that Mal had absolutely no intention or interest in returning for the Tams. While assessing their options, the Alliance resulted after all others were too far, too much time, and even the Alliance was of borderline acceptable distance/time. Meanwhile, Simon was right there downplanet.
The decision/discussion to return for the Tams (who were both being murdered) came only after Book was OK, and Mal had learned some lesson from the episode (I forget what, but maybe from a recovered Book), and only just before the rescue.
The danger that Book was in should have increased the urgency for finding Simon, not discounted it.
I'm still not convinced. I hope it was merely a discontinuity of script versions. If not, the script really should have been changed to not say "don't worry, we won't leave without you".
I enjoy the whole of this body of work, but this one big irk substantially degrades my opinion of Mal.
"My turn"
"That is the last time you call me whore"
"Everybody dies alone"
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Reading the above responses they are what first came to my mind and they are rationalizations which isn't bad we all rationalize things.
The characters in FF are unlike character in many other series's they are life-like three dimensional people who say one thing and do another. How often have any of us said anything then had to do the opposite? Its not that our word isn't good its that life has this fantastic habit of not abiding by our proclamations no matter how casual or determined they may be. We have been trained to expect ABOSLUTE consistency from TV characters, this many times is the tool of a lazy writer, it is easy to write and easy to add to a story. Mal is a person, we screw up, go back on our word, can be simply wrong and those choices have consequences. Mal isn't Capt. Archer, Capt. Picard, Luke Skywalker, or Dr. McKay he is a person not a cliched archetype who's life shattering problems are resolved by deus ex machina.
I love ST and Stargate but they have their flaws. So take no offense the above statements are my opinions.
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Were I an Alliance citizen during the War of Unification I would have been an Alliance Patriot, but I would have run guns for the Browncoats. No I am not a greedy baby eating monster! Gunrunning would have been the patriotic thing to do.
Governments have a way of warping ideals.
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Dunno if there's anything that can convince you, once your mind is made up, but I'll post anyway. As pointed out, Mal knows as well as anyone that a bullet wound to the gut is a race against time. As one who held a command position in the war, Mal knew a choice had to be made. Risk going to an Alliance ship to get Book some medical aid, or spend time down on the planet planning a S&R of Simon and River. On the one hand,option A, you have definate knowns. The location of Alliance ship that is certain to have the best care at that moment in order to save Book. On the other,option B, Simon and River have been taken 'somewhere' up in the hills, by an unknown number of likely armed villagers. To take time to find the village, plan a rescue and then bring Simon back and prep him for surgery (alone ) would surely have lead to the early demise of Book. No matter how good a surgeon Simon is,he's just one person. He can't compete with a fully staffed and equipped Alliance med facility. There are simply too many variables, unknowns with option B for Mal. He chose wisely.
Also, the very fact that they DID come back for Simon and River shows Mal's true intent all along. Why not just fly off and leave them be? Think about it...and obscure commune, a tightly knit community which keeps mostly to itself and only rarely comes in contact w/ the outside world. Simon and River could have been as safe there as anywhere, never having to use their names, no need to get on the coretex, they would be effectively " off the grid ". That thought had to have crossed Mal's mind a time or two. He'd be rid of a couple of trouble makers and clear of most of his Alliance trouble.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:I've got to jump on the chance to agree with Auraptor, it may never come again LOL!
Originally posted by AURaptor:
As one who held a command position in the war, Mal knew a choice had to be made.
jewelstaitefan, you're kind of missing the beauty of Mal's character, and it makes me sad! What he does in Safe is take the responsibility of maybe being wrong onto himself. He might have lost Simon and River and been blamed for it, as you blame him, and as surely he'd have blamed himself. He accepted the responsibility and possible guilt, as a great leader should.
A lesser man may have been paralyzed by this choice, or felt so bound by his words to Simon that he wasn't able to act quickly. As Aurapter explains, what Mal did was the better solution. Just as Zoe made the better choice in War Stories when she left Mal to be tortured. Note that he didn't hold that against her - it's all about tactics.
These two make the hard choices, not to win anyone's approval but to do their best to get everyone through impossible situations. That's truly honorable.
Oh, and welcome to the site and thanks for bringing up the topic! I loves me a chance to defend my Mal. (Just be careful about saying folks may not be remembering the episode - some people here have watched the series a gazillion times in the past five years LOL!)
Edit to add: on further reflection, I must admit that there is some merit to not trusting Mal's word. The fact that he'll go with the larger situation means that he will sacrifice individuals if he has no choice. And he certainly has his dark side - doesn't mind kicking an unarmed, bound man through an engine!
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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The Safe shooting script is here:
http://firefly.girven.org/scripts/firefly-107.htm
Now, I admit that they probably differ from the what's on the DVD, but there's no mention of a promise in it.
However, working on the assumption that you're correct, I still think you are missing the point of the dramatic tension here. _Simon_ thinks he's been left behind, _we_ think he's left them behind, _Jayne_ certainly thinks they've been left behind. Joss goes even further, by including the conversation between Zoe and Mal where Zoe tells him that things would be easier without fugitives on board. (This conversation doesn't appear to be in the shooting script either, now that I check) All this is done not to say that Mal _isn't_ trustworthy, but in fact to lead us to the conclusion that he _is_, but that we'd been fooled into believing he wasn't (shame on us).
mrben
"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org
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