Mal's word no good?
POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Sunday, October 14, 2007 03:26
VIEWED: 18720
PAGE 6 of 8
I know he likes to shoot unarmed people :)
Grasshopper,
what you plan
and what takes place
is never exactly been similar.
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bump
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
MaL DOES go back on his word, but not in this instance.
Check out "Those Left Behind", the comic series.
He uses a job offer as an excuse for not respecting Inara's wishes to be delivered to her gig at the Training House.
nice to see TLB get a mention - i really think the Mal in this - and the BMG is the Mal of Joss's pilot* (even more so the unscreened version).
i would add the scene from Serenity (the movie) where Mal states his objectives after Book's death - and is threatening to the crew... would he really have left them behind - or worse?
we have almost parallel Mal's to play with - FireFly and Serenity... it would be really interesting to see what sort of Mal we would get if there were a post-BDM movie/series - for this reason alone...
my preferrance is for the character of the bleaker Mal - but the humour in the show is a definite plus - so... i guess we're lucky to have a Captain complex enough to have both sides to his character - and an actor quick enough to play him!
*the commentary emphasises the moral 'grey ness' of Mal.
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I apologize for not reading this entire thread before responding, but I think I understand what you're trying to ask. I just want to second what I've seen a few people say.
This is why I watch the show.
It takes a minute to understand the characters. They aren't predictable. They make mistakes. To quote the pilot episode (forgive me if I'm a bit off) -
"Because the captain is something of a mystery."
"Because so few men are."
"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."
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I like the Mal of the Comic Book/Movie better, too. He is darker, but more realistic. Unfortunately, some of his humor had to be sacrificed to portray him that way. The movie had Jayne and Wash provide the comic relief.
It's obvious that once Joss was able to get the network numbskulls of his back, he was able to create the character he wanted. He had more control of the project and artistic license followed. And it would make sense, that the two characters that challenged Mal's moral choices (Book and Inara) would be off the ship because they don't need the Captain's protection or validation.
And Yeah, I think he would have left those that chose to stay behind, on Haven. He provides them with an out. Something worse? Probably not, I think that was a fairly empty threat. Shoot, Inara, please, he pretends like she's not even there, so he can go about being the "Nasty Monster Leader" without her seeing him that way.
Post BDM...I'm not sure what to expect... since a sequel is more likely than a series, who knows? We could see a whole new side of Mal. It is hard to anticipate, because again it is really up to Joss. And he obviously likes creating what he wants without interference, even if it is not consistent with what we've seen in the past. I'm just afraid with all this sequel talk, he could kill off another character sending Mal back into his honorable vengeance mode. Let's see.... hmm...what character could that be?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
The movie had Jayne and Wash provide the comic relief.
except the beginning - LOL!
Quote:
It's obvious that once Joss was able to get the network numbskulls of his back, he was able to create the character he wanted. He had more control of the project and artistic license followed. And it would make sense, that the two characters that challenged Mal's morality choices (Book and Inara) would be off the ship because they don't need the Captain's protection or validation.
agreed.
Quote:
Post BDM...I'm not sure what to expect... because again it is really up to Joss. And he obviously likes creating what he wants without interference, even if it is not consistent with what we've seen in the past.
yeh... the same as Buffy8 is set far enough away from series 7 and any fanfiction following...
i think in that respect fanfics may be a double edge sword...
they keep us going - but are they a burden for show creators?
Lucas's movies seemed to implode as his universe expanded -
and would the fans of firefly accept changes Joss made?
is loyalty actually fickle and dependant on having expectations fufilled?
Do we all demand that Misery Chastaigne lives again?
hmmm... scattered thoughts as always:)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I have read your replies. I'm afraid I find them akin to rationalizations, perhaps the episode is less fresh in your minds.
You don't know me, son. So let me explain this to you once. There's only one thing I can say to that statement... LOL. :) I know you're new to the site, jewelstaitefan, so I'm sure you don't fully appreciate the "LOL" yet; but to hear you say this to peeps, myself included, who could probably quote half the Firefly episodes verbatimly, and would most like not be wrong about the other half either, suddenly "less fresh in your minds" sounds somehow, well, off. :)
Okay, with that out of the way, it's seems you're not fully comprehending on the true nature of Mal's character.
Quote:
If you want to try, give me some quote or indication that he was exen considering going back for either Tam BEFORE Book was recovering.
What Mal wants to do, and what Mal eventually DOES, are two different things. I best expressed this in a sunitem work of mine (yes, shameless plug), called: "Mal's Way". Haven. Mal, mostly to himself, I reckon, says: "I had an out. Hell, I had every reason in the 'verse to leave her lay and haul anchor." Upon which Books utters the truest words ever offered a human soul in this crap-heel 'verse: "It's not your way, Mal."
This here's a spectacle might warrant a moment's consideration. Oh, Mal was plenty pissed at the good doctor in the BDM; and I'm sure in Safe he was more than a mite miffed at the doc, too, getting himself and his sister into trouble at a time Mal could least use it (after all, did he not just say he wasn't his gorram babysitter?). But in the end, Mal does the right thing. See, this is the point I'm making: Mal not only does what's right when he wants to, but also when he DOESN'T want to! And that's what makes him truly honorable! In the BDM, Jayne's question is most poignant: "In earnest, Mal, why'd you bring her back on?" Mal has no real answer. He simply did it for no greater reason than because it was the right to do!
It all don't mean Mal didn't wanna throw Simon out of an airlock; or that he never seriously considered getting rid of the Tams. In fact, in Objects in Space, Mal overtly says he needs time to think on what to do with them. In all these instances, the story is set up so the viewer may believe Mal has a choice... I don't believe he does.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Re: wytchcroft and Joss's writing to please fans.
Absolutely not! From what I have gathered from interviews and commentary, Joss had a clear and concise narrative that he wanted to tell with Firefly. Staff writing pow wows probably consisted of him changing most of what was submitted to meet his expectations. I'm sure they heard the words, "no, I don't think so" quite a bit from him.
And Lucas’s failure to produce anything with any written relevance with his dismal prequels more than likely confirmed Joss's conviction not to compromise the creative process with token dog bones to appease fans and Hollywood morons.
So, if fans are anticipating Zoe babies, Tam Weddings, and River walking and talking like the Crazy Academy never happened, with them all sailing through the black on the frackin Love Boat, they better look somewhere else or keep reading fanfiction, because that's not a Whedon story.
Anyway, getting back to this thread...that would include Mal suddenly and miraculously making good choices based on his careful, thoughtful, and insightful self analysis that he was doing the right thing for the betterment of humanity, and hopefully, for his sake, Inara will take notice and finally give him a piece of ass that he has been waiting on since the Pilot.
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Nice thread!
When trying to look into Mal's seeming inconsistency in "Safe", I think three things need to be taken into consideration: intent, history, and situation.
Mal's "we won't leave without you" is not a strong statement of intent; it's made as an offhand remark to ease Simon's fears of leaving the ship. It's more of a plot device to set up Simon's feeling of abandonment , shown when he sees Serenity blast off after giving the "The Captain will come for us" line. AT THE TIME the statement was made, Simon was not in any grave danger. The statement in and of itself is virtually meaningless. It's a prime example of the writing style used on Firefly..namely, everyday statements which seem to mean nothing, but still impact the storyline as the show progresses.
Looking at a historical perspective..Mal's statement in "Serenity" regarding their situation with the Fed onboard, fugitive passengers, Alliance pursuit etc etc..shows something of his mental process. "We gotta deal with what's in front of us" is the key line here. The danger to Book is immediate and in his face: it must be dealt with before anything else. The fate of Simon/River is an unknown..the peril of Book is known.
The previous episodes also reflect that Mal, while GENERALLY an honorable man, is as Badger says, "always fluid". Case in point: The story of Dobson. Once discovered Mal turns him over to Jayne for interrogation, and insinuates he doesn't want the man hurt. "Just scare him...just do it right." are his words. Later, when the Reavers are closing in and Dobson holds River, he shoots him dead without hesitation. This is the crux of Mal's personae: Honor until honor gets in the way of survival.
Situationally, there's not much to talk about really. Book is dying RIGHT NOW. They have no idea where Simon and River are. The decision to go to the Alliance ship (after Inara suggests it) is a last-ditch effort to save Book. The planet offers (as the capture of Simon shows) no or very little medical options. Other planets the crew suggests are too far away. The Alliance vessel is the ONLY place they KNOW will be able to help Book..whether they would or not is of course part of the plot.
Was he planning to go back for them? Who knows. His statement about the pair being "dumb enough to get themselves caught" is perplexing. Maybe he planned to leave them? Maybe going back was the plan all along? Those are questions we're meant to ask as the story progresses. The final scene doesn't give us a definitive answer; it only shows that they DO go back for them.
As an aside, this was one of my least favorite episodes the first time I watched the series, and remains as probably the one I watch the second-least (after The Train Job)
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First off, great work on this gorram shiny thread. Nice to see that people in the 'Verse still think.^^ Somebody once said in another thread that Browncoats are intelligent and we see that truly in a rich debate such as this.^^
Anyway, I don't think there is much more to add to those pointed out (I actually had time to read all the posts and it was very enjoyable.) already. I just remembered an off-Firefly quote I wanted to share:
In Harry Potter, Dumbledore said something about how a man's actions, not his lineage or, for the lack of a better word right now, "personality", define who he is.(sorry, completely blacking out on the word or exact quote.^^)I guess that explains our Cap'n. Not really a man of his word, but then, what kind of thief/smuggler is? Doesn't mean that he ain't honorable, nor does it mean that he's a bad guy. But then again, being bad guys is relative and I KNOW more'n a lot who thinks it's shiny to be so.^^
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I don't know what I'm saying. I never know what I'm saying.... -River Tam, Serenity (2005)
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