Is Joyce Summers dead because of Dawn?
POSTED BY: Dataless
UPDATED: Thursday, September 27, 2007 21:41
VIEWED: 13098
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
It's sorta the other way around. They were hinting about Dawn back in Season 3. When Faith and Buffy are making the bed in the dream sequence thing and she says something like "gotta get ready for little sis" or something. Then at the end of season 4 during the crazy first slayer dreams Tara says, "the Dawn is coming" or something like that.
As for Joyce, I know that Joss said in an interview that he told Joyce she was going to die in Season 5 right before Season 4. Basically because Joyce was taking a leave from the show (that's why she was hardly in Season 4), but he was like "but you're coming back for Season 5 right? Cause I'm gonna kill you."
I'd heard something along those lines as well about when he told her that she was going to die. To tell her when she was hired would have been before S1 was out and I think that they wouldn't be planning that far ahead.
I think Faith refers to Dawn as 'Little Miss Muffet'. And on my last viewing of S5 I only just got that the crazy guy outside the Magic Box mentions 'curds and whey'. Still finding new stuff after all these years.
As for the original point I think that the theory is nice but that it is a coincidence of sorts. Buffy's Dad is out of the picture, she has a sister that's not her sister and I have read too many times that Joss wanted a natural death, one that couldn't be linked in any way to the supernatural. As stated Buffy's 'death' makes more sense.
"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."
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Interesting idea. It could be that, or simply that Joss likes killin' off folks we've become accustomed to.
I'm leaning toward the latter, myself.
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Well just harking back to a previous mention of if it was due to Dawn arriving that Joyce joined the Choir Invisible. The reason it may not have effected the others was because they had only known Buffy from when she was a teenager and therefore Dawn from that time as well, while Joyce would have memories dating back to Dawns birth. So alot more meddling would have gone on in her head. Wouldn't have effected Buffy of course as she is the Slayer with bouncebackability.
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I heard that both Joyce and Jenny Calendar were both were meant to die sooner then they did. (In Joyce's case I think much sooner.)
Quote:
Originally posted by Quietude:
Well just harking back to a previous mention of if it was due to Dawn arriving that Joyce joined the Choir Invisible. The reason it may not have effected the others was because they had only known Buffy from when she was a teenager and therefore Dawn from that time as well, while Joyce would have memories dating back to Dawns birth. So alot more meddling would have gone on in her head. Wouldn't have effected Buffy of course as she is the Slayer with bouncebackability.
Interesting point. The effects of the spell could have caused the cancer but her death was natural.
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Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
They were hinting about Dawn back in Season 3. When Faith and Buffy are making the bed in the dream sequence thing and she says something like "gotta get ready for little sis" or something. Then at the end of season 4 during the crazy first slayer dreams Tara says, "the Dawn is coming" or something like that.
B]
I think Faith refers to Dawn as 'Little Miss Muffet'. And on my last viewing of S5 I only just got that the crazy guy outside the Magic Box mentions 'curds and whey'. Still finding new stuff after all these years.
I've been rewatching Buffy from Season 1 and noticed the references to Dawn between Faith and Buffy - a couple of times and Tara in The Restless. I was surprised I hadn't picked up on it before.
I don't think Dawn caused Joyce's death. I'm not even sure (who can be but Joss) that either Glory or the spell of the monks caused it. I think it was natural causes which seems even more horrific in the context of the whole magic, demons, supernatural sphere. I would agree that The Body was one of the most powerful shows of the whole series. It was so starkly realistic and final. I kept waiting for Joyce to come back. I thought maybe somehow Dawn would revive her, that it would be some sort of latent power within her. I remember in a later episode that Buffy makes a remark or responds to a question tht if she had to do it again, she would kill Dawn before allowing the ritual to even begin.
Siri
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Then at the end of season 4 during the crazy first slayer dreams Tara says, "the Dawn is coming" or something like that.
"Be back before dawn."
One of my favorite Tara quotes.
"it's always complicated and at some point someone has to draw the line and that is always going to be me. you get down on me for cutting myself off but in the end the slayer is always cut off. there's no mystical guide book, no all knowing council, human rules don't apply. there's only me....i am the law" -Buffy the Vampire Slayer
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Joyce's death was a natural one. NO supernatural thing or event caused it--that was the whole point. Something that Buffy could not fight, could not stop, could not correct.
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I agree, surely that whole point was that it was completely natural? trying to blame it on dawn and glory and the supernatural is what buffy went through before coming to the understanding that it was just life...
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Exactly!
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"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel
"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya
"You let him get me. You let him get me."--Connor For Joss!
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I never thought Joyce's death was supernatural or caused by Dawn or anyone else. It's seems to me that Joss simply wanted to take Buffy down that path - force her to really grow up and, in turn, become a parent to Dawn. It makes for good character development.
And Joyce was not annoying! I loved Joyce! 
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