Maybe I was wrong- poll shows George Bush is actually evil....
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 17:23
VIEWED: 11448
PAGE 1 of 1
http://www.evilscale.com/vote.aspx?nomineeid=14
Quote:
8.63
OUT OF TEN
Pretty Evil
I guess it's official Chrisisall
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That's a side of the family we prefer not to talk about.
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Dang, and I only thought he was maybe a 5 or a 6.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
http://www.evilscale.com/vote.aspx?nomineeid=14Quote:
8.63
OUT OF TEN
Pretty Evil
I guess it's official Chrisisall
Particuarly considering the competition...
Quote:
Adolf Hitler
Dictator
Adolf Hitler ruled over Germany and the Nazi party from 1934 until his self-inflicted death in 1945. Hitler gained power in a Germany facing crisis after World War I, using charismatic oratory and propaganda, appealing to economic need of the lower and middle classes, nationalism, anti-Semitism and anti-communism to establish a totalitarian or fascist dictatorship. Hitler pursued an aggressive military campaign across Europe and at the height of its power, Nazi Germany occupied most of Europe. During this time, Hitler’s racial policies had culminated in the murder of at least eleven million people, including the deliberate genocide of about six million Jews. Today, the practice of taking a smear of poop and indiscriminately making a small mustache on a person’s face in the style of Hitler’s mustache is known as "The Hitler".
7.68
OUT OF TEN
Rather Bad
David
'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg
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The only ones who'd call Bush evil are.....
a) Islamo Nazi terrorist who'd cut off the heads of Joss Whedon and every star of his fantastic shows FIRST when trying to take over the world.
b) Left wing pussies who don't stand for anything worth while.
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
Wake the hell up, morons.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Actually, there's a good chance that I might be distantly related via Thomas Walker (that's where the W comes from).
I don't think he's evil. Pit of a pillock though.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
How they gonna do it, Rap? Terrorism and guerrilla tactics are great for making life difficult for an occupying army, but no country has ever been conquered thataway. How they gonna take over the United States of America?
You may fantasize that "the terrorists" will get a bomb and blow up an American city. A lot of people are into that fantasy. And I say that if that were ever to occur (sworn enemies of the United States have had nuclear weapons for half a century and...still nothing), if that were to occur, that would be the end of it. It's a one shot deal, no war, no campaign, no conquering our land and putting designer table cloths over the heads of starlets. We'd surely retaliate against whatever corner of the world the perpetrators called home and that would be the end of their "offensive."
America's unique geography, Muslim on Muslim infighting, a total lack of conventional military credibility on the Islamist side, and a few thousand other things that are manifestly obvious to anyone not completely brainwashed by the Cheney machine, stand between Ms. Alba and Dhimmification.
AURaptor, you are living in a (very ugly, ruinously expensive, and brutally tribalist) fantasy world. Your hero worship of GWB would be laughable if so many Americas weren't still clinging as you are to this saccharine sweet dream of Presidential infallibility.
Reality is gonna win in the end, Rap. It always does.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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HK , it's clear you don't know me nor do you know my views on President Bush. But because I refuse to go along w/the template of the Left wing, which is promoted by the vast majority of Hollywood and the elite Liberal meida, in pronouncing that Bush is a moron, you claim me to be some sort of follower of Bush. But I'm not, not by a long shot.
I'm an American. I'm grounded in reality, as I find that's real helpful in being a full time skeptic.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:You just brightened my day, HK.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Reality is gonna win in the end, Rap. It always does.
Thanks, Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
Wow... the only thing, huh? You must be scared shitless (or perhaps brainless). It's a terrible thing to live in fear.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:You know that Jessica and Joss are democrats don't you? Joss openly supported John Kerry. Jessica has joined Halle Berry in the Obama camp. Ya know what else....I'm 6' tall 280lbs and raised in a tough town and I am no pussy. Someone like you who could enlist for this war you support and still hides here in the US is a pussy. The one thing I do stand for is to hope the day comes when you quit verbally vomiting back up last night's O'Reilly, Hannity, and Rush EVERY...FRACKEN.....DAY
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The only ones who'd call Bush evil are.....
a) Islamo Nazi terrorist who'd cut off the heads of Joss Whedon and every star of his fantastic shows FIRST when trying to take over the world.
b) Left wing pussies who don't stand for anything worth while.
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka. Wake the hell up, morons.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
HK , it's clear you don't know me nor do you know my views on President Bush. But because I refuse to go along w/the template of the Left wing, which is promoted by the vast majority of Hollywood and the elite Liberal meida, in pronouncing that Bush is a moron, you claim me to be some sort of follower of Bush. But I'm not, not by a long shot.
Rap, you and I have been knocking around this board now for years, I know what you've said. I know you have your pet "disagreements" with GWB, that you self-identify as a "conservative libertarian" etc.
I was responding to your specific (and utterly absurd) statement that ol' George was "the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a burka." If that doesn't make him a hero, I don't know what would.
Though I didn't (and still don't) have high hopes for a justification of this extraordinary claim, I'm still interested in how you suppose the Islamists could not only dhimmify the U.S. but turn us into a full-blown fundamentalist Islamic republic, complete with burkas for the movie stars. That is a thoroughly outrageous, and to the best of my knowledge, utterly unfounded assertion. If that's what you call "grounded," where's your ground?
There is no precedent for this fantasy of global Islamist conquest by terrorist strike. None. You are talking unadulterated nonsense. Give me the slightest shred of evidence to the contrary. And please, telling me how much they want it is not evidence that they are capable of conquering us. If wishes were horses, etc.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
Wow... the only thing, huh? You must be scared shitless (or perhaps brainless). It's a terrible thing to live in fear.
I'm a bit amazed that some don't recognize hyperbole when it's used to make a ponit. I'm not scared, but I am aware of what we're facing. You seem to want to ignore the issue and dismiss everything they've done, out of hand.
And so you'll fully understand, I don't literally believe Bush in all that's standing between the Jessica and a burka, between the Jihadist and our freedom, but there's no denying about what THEY would do, if given 1/2 a chance. They've said so themselves.
*MEDIA MATTERS
Terrorists: We'll cut off head of 'prostitute' Britney Spears
Madonna also targeted by jihad leaders who warn of 'spreading satanic culture'
Posted: September 11, 2007
9:11 p.m. Eastern
Muslim terrorist leaders threatened to forcibly convert Britney Spears and Madonna to Islam and warned if they resist, their heads would be cut off for "spreading Satanic culture," according to a new book released today.
The threats, recorded on audio, come as Madonna is due to arrive in Israel Wednesday to celebrate the Jewish new year with fellow Kabbalah practitioners.
"If I meet these whores I will have the honor – I repeat, I will have the honor – to be the first one to cut the heads off Madonna and Britney Spears if they will keep spreading their satanic culture against Islam," said Muhammad Abdel-Al, spokesman and senior leader of the Popular Resistance Committees terror organization.
The Committees, largely based in the Gaza Strip, has carried out thousands of rocket attacks against Jewish population centers and scores of shootings and bombings. It is suspected of bombing a U.S. convoy in Gaza in 2003 and took credit for a rocket attack yesterday that hit an Israeli military base wounding 69 – the largest casualty number of any Palestinian rocket attack.
*And HK, sorry, but it IS relevent about what they are saying and what they claim they want to do. So many people were blind as to why we were attacked on 9/11. Many could not fathom the source of such hatred and why anyone would sink to such depths of humanity to wrought such destruction, unprovoked,on a completely civilian target.
This is who the Jihadist are. This is what they want, and this is an example of the lengths they'll go to get their way.
So you understand.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
Wake the hell up, morons.
If that wasn't so damn true it would be hysterical.
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Rap,
Hyperbole can be very hard to recognize. I can only say I did not recognize it as such, but then I'm used to you making rather outrageous comments that I don't identify with.
One might argue that by his poor choices, George Bush has been the greatest recruitment tool for Osama. This is one of the reasons why Bush -had- to be right about the WMD; otherwise the risks on going into Iraq (and fomenting a rise in terrorism was one of the risks) were not worth it. From this perspective, indicating that Bush has been an impediment to terrorists is a contradiction.
Thus, it is logical for someone to assume that you are pro-Bush based on your original statement, hyperbole or not.
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Quote:Of course, there are folks who think even the hyperbole is accurate as an upfront assessment. One of the dangers of hyperbole.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
Wake the hell up, morons.
If that wasn't so damn true it would be hysterical.
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Well, there is a kernal of truth in the hyperoble. While I took things to one extreme, others here would go the other way, and utterly dismiss everything in the world which they think might help Bush in any way. Regardless of the facts.
If a fire breaks out, and Bush asks for help in putting out the fire, some here would sit on their hands, mock that Bush probably set th fire in the first place, and do nothing. Meanwhile, the fire still burns, and they complain that Bush isn't doing any thing about the smoke that's stinging their eyes.
incredible.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:Quote:Of course, there are folks who think even the hyperbole is accurate as an upfront assessment. One of the dangers of hyperbole.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
Wake the hell up, morons.
If that wasn't so damn true it would be hysterical.
Nice post.....you thinking you know what I think...definitely not a kindness.
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Quote:"If that wasn't so damn true" is...uh, supposed to be a joke, then?
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:Quote:Of course, there are folks who think even the hyperbole is accurate as an upfront assessment. One of the dangers of hyperbole.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
Wake the hell up, morons.
If that wasn't so damn true it would be hysterical.
Nice post.....you thinking you know what I think...definitely not a kindness.
I'm missing something funny...
Shepard Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:Quote:Of course, there are folks who think even the hyperbole is accurate as an upfront assessment. One of the dangers of hyperbole.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
Wake the hell up, morons.
If that wasn't so damn true it would be hysterical.
Nice post.....you thinking you know what I think...definitely not a kindness.
Well... yes, I did say 'think' didn't I. No, I really do not know what you think, and I retract the word. It does seems you do support the 'truth' in the hyperbole; it is not clear from your post to what degree you 'think' the hyperbole has gone 'too far'.
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Quote:I understand that there are folks who will not give Bush credit for anything; and wish to blame him for everything.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Well, there is a kernal of truth in the hyperoble. While I took things to one extreme, others here would go the other way, and utterly dismiss everything in the world which they think might help Bush in any way. Regardless of the facts.
If a fire breaks out, and Bush asks for help in putting out the fire, some here would sit on their hands, mock that Bush probably set th fire in the first place, and do nothing. Meanwhile, the fire still burns, and they complain that Bush isn't doing any thing about the smoke that's stinging their eyes.
incredible.
In the specific case of Bush being the one to credit 'standing in the way' of the terrorist, I tend to think that the end result of the Iraq invasion, substantially due to the failure of discovering WMD and other problems with how the war was prosecuted, runs an extreme risk of generating more terrorists than it eliminates. As a consequence, this is not an issue I tend to credit Bush for.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
If a fire breaks out, and Bush asks for help in putting out the fire, some here would sit on their hands, mock that Bush probably set th fire in the first place, and do nothing. Meanwhile, the fire still burns, and they complain that Bush isn't doing any thing about the smoke that's stinging their eyes.
incredible.
More b.s. Is this more hyperbole, after you've just been shown how vapid your hyperbole is?
The folks on this board who distrust Bush, do so with reason. This is your favorite tactic for diverting any real discourse on Bush's actions and inactions. "You're just saying that 'cause you hate him." Whose mind even works like that? Nobody hates someone because they hate them. Their rationale may not square with your assessment of the situation, but that doesn't make their point of view arbitrary.
But beyond that, Rap, for the love of God, HOW in the world are the jihadists going to take over the world with borrowed technology and improvised bombs? HOW? On a wing and a prayer? Where there's a will there's a way? If they just repeat "I think I can, I think I can"? 'Cause they've got high hopes? 'Cause they've got miles and miles and miles of heart?
They can't do it. It is physically impossible. THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MEANS. And don't you dare tell me you were speaking hyperbolically because it is the very crux of your argument.
You say we've seen what they can do given half a chance, presumably referring to the 3000 who died on 9/11. But Rap, since you do not believe the conspiracy theories, you must recognize that the towers actually falling as they did was a monumental fluke, going against every expectation of every engineer on the planet. The towers were specifically designed to withstand being hit by airplanes. The hijackers could never have planned or expected the total collapse of the WTC.
And here we are, the 6th anniversary of the attack and they got nothing. With every passing year that they do not step up their "offensive" the more hollow your paranoia is revealed to be. And again, even if they were to get ahold of a "dirty bomb," one more terrorist attack, one city nuked, does not a war win. On the contrary, as soon as they go nuclear they have sealed their own doom, not ours.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:Well, I say this AU- you are able to put a big ole' smile on my face!
Originally posted by AURaptor:
If a fire breaks out, and Bush asks for help in putting out the fire, some here would sit on their hands, mock that Bush probably set th fire in the first place, and do nothing. Meanwhile, the fire still burns, and they complain that Bush isn't doing any thing about the smoke that's stinging their eyes.
incredible.
That you could think up this little hypothetical and nonsensical situation, and be all astonished when we all reacted just how you designed us to react...heh heh, well, let's just say that's very Old Testament-y of ya!
LOL CIA
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Quote:OMG, I never realized! Lock your doors and windows folks! Piratenews, why didn't you ever tell us?!?!?!
Originally posted by chrisisall:
LOL CIA
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:MU HU HU HA HA HA HA!!!!
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Piratenews, why didn't you ever tell us?!?!?!
On a serious note, get this- my pop-in-law comes from a country not unaffected by central American CIA hijinks, and he has subscriptions to Mother Jones, The Nation, Latin-American papers, etc... and this year his phone is buzzing and clicking intermittantly- the phone company can't figgure out what the problem is, they say his line is clean. What could it mean?
Duh Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:Quote:Of course, there are folks who think even the hyperbole is accurate as an upfront assessment. One of the dangers of hyperbole.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
Wake the hell up, morons.
If that wasn't so damn true it would be hysterical.
Nice post.....you thinking you know what I think...definitely not a kindness.
Well... yes, I did say 'think' didn't I. No, I really do not know what you think, and I retract the word. It does seems you do support the 'truth' in the hyperbole; it is not clear from your post to what degree you 'think' the hyperbole has gone 'too far'.
lead...you don't need to retract anything...lots of posters here "presume to visit our intentions"
....and to be perfectly clear for those who are too obtuse and tunnel-visioned on that one particular AuRqp line...yeah I thought it was a terrificly sarcastic and poignant statement, and funny too...and if the Bush-haters are offended by it, then all the better.
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Is he in the US or South America? If in SA he may want to investigate Time Domain Reflectometry analysis of his phone line. TDR will tell you if someone has actually tapped into the wires between the central office and his phone.
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Quote:We be cool then, thanks. I'm glad someone 'got it'; I know I took it too literally.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
lead...you don't need to retract anything...lots of posters here "presume to visit our intentions"
....and to be perfectly clear for those who are too obtuse and tunnel-visioned on that one particular AuRqp line...yeah I thought it was a terrificly sarcastic and poignant statement, and funny too...and if the Bush-haters are offended by it, then all the better.
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Hey!! No civility on MY thread!!!
Resume hostilities now please.
The confrontational Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:Quote:We be cool then, thanks. I'm glad someone 'got it'; I know I took it too literally.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
lead...you don't need to retract anything...lots of posters here "presume to visit our intentions"
....and to be perfectly clear for those who are too obtuse and tunnel-visioned on that one particular AuRqp line...yeah I thought it was a terrificly sarcastic and poignant statement, and funny too...and if the Bush-haters are offended by it, then all the better.
" We be cool "....Ya know...A Hundred years or so from now a famous writer/philosopher will call for those 3 words to replace I love you." J.T. Kirk
Most shiny!
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hey!! No civility on MY thread!!!
Resume hostilities now please.
The confrontational Chrisisall
Man...you are an absolute pistol!...funny as all shit! I don't particularily agree with anything politically you believe in, but there is no doubt that you are truly vital to these real world boards. You make it fun, and isn't that why we're all here in the foist place? Thanks Browncoat.
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Quote:
HKCavalier wrote:
Friday, September 14, 2007 05:25
The folks on this board who distrust Bush, do so with reason
No, they don't. Other than blind partisan fanaticism. You hate him because you think he stole the 2000 election, despite the facts. You hate him because he was re-elected, and you wanted YOUR guys in the White House.
How? Well, they're trying to take over the Middle East, and control most of the world's oil. That's a start. Next, they're invading Europe, and taking over there. Not today, not tomorrow, but give it a few deades.
I'll not banter w/ an idiot when it comes to HOW the WTC's fell. It was no fluke what so ever, and anyone who thinks they were taken down by demolition is a gullible fool.
The main reason the jihadist have nothing is that Bush is taking the fight to them. Unlike the last administration, who wanted to try the terrorist in our legal system, give them all manner of special rights and privledges and have our CIA guys brought to the stand and cross examined, on the public record. Can you think of a more stupider way of fighting a war than that ?
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:We all got on this boat for similar reasons...
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
and isn't that why we're all here in the foist place? Thanks Browncoat.
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Quote:THAT'S THE SPIRIT!! (I stole that from Roy Batty...)
Originally posted by AURaptor:
blind partisan fanaticism.
You hate him
You hate him
I'll not banter w/ an idiot
gullible fool.
Quote:Conjure I could, but I couldn't think of a 'more stupider' gramatically incorrect way of puttin' it
Can you think of a more stupider way of fighting a war than that ?
.BWAHAHAHAHAHChrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Conjure I could, but I couldn't think of a 'more stupider' gramatically incorrect way of puttin' it
Originally posted by AURaptor:
BWAHAHAHAHAHChrisisall
It's a slow night and I figured the Grammer Nazis needed something to do. And sure enough, I was right!
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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I vas onlee folowink oeurders.
NO POSTS FOR YOU Chrisisall
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Quote:
How they gonna do it, Rap? Terrorism and guerrilla tactics are great for making life difficult for an occupying army, but no country has ever been conquered thataway. How they gonna take over the United States of America?
Time could cause America to be occupied. A country is likely to/ could occupy the united states one-day. Why would you think no-one could invade the country you live in some time in the future? Do you think your country would buck a trend of history because you yourself are too pretty? You might be pretty but if you look at History, even Britain which was one of the most powerful countries in the world was almost invaded in WW2 by Germany. World war 2 started in 1939. The English military was almost defeated at the end of the world war 2 and they were almost most invaded by Germany. Just before England became a German state, America stepped in. Now is probably the longest period of peace in the world at the moment- and a time of least deaths resulting from wars. Can you pick a 15 year time-span in history that has been more peaceful?
You are also considering terrorists as isolated men that don't do much damage and are highly underestimating the big picture. The support of terrorism is unlikely just to be supported by men: governments also have been known to financially support terrorists and continue to do so. A few people setting explosives on a bus is an isolated incident. But would you say it is a war if the same terrorist attack is financially supported by a government of a country?
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Lets just go from a point where there is no contention then, shall we Auraptor.
Among a myriad of other reasons, I hate George W. Bush for the irrefutable fact that he has said the following...
"Fool me once shame on...me...fool me twice......can't get fooled again."
"too many o b g y n's are unable to practice their love on their patients."
"As John Howard accurately noted when he went to thank the Austrian troops there last year..." --
"More than two decades later, it is hard to imagine the Revolutionary War coming out any other way."
"Tribal sovereignty means that, it's sovereign. You're a -- you're a -- you have been given sovereignty and you're viewed as a sovereign entity...And therefore, the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities."
"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --George W. Bush, interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006
“Because the — all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There’s a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those — changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be — or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It’s kind of muddled. Look, there’s a series of things that cause the — like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate — the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those — if that growth is affected, it will help on the red.”
.................
Nobody could embarrass us more than this man has, and continues to do. These are just choice examples. There's more by the day.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms.htm
He tarnishes our image abroad by speech alone, were that were the only weapon in his arsenal.
you will deny the facts of all his other blunders with all the zeal you can muster, , but you can't deny that the way he trips over anythng he tries to say, he should be wearing motley, and not a presidential suit. You can't deny he said those things.
The man has been in politics too long not to be able to form a coherent preprepared sentence when called upon his handlers to do so.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mazaen:
Time could cause America to be occupied. A country is likely to/ could occupy the united states one-day. Why would you think no-one could invade the country you live in some time in the future? Do you think your country would buck a trend of history because you yourself are too pretty?
Aw, crap. If you want to take random pot-shots at us silly Americans, please don't arbitrarily choose my post as a pretext. Where the heck do you get the idea that I'm suggesting that "no-one" could invade the U.S.? No-where, that's where. I never said no-one could conquer America. I'm talking about Rap's enemy, the putative terrorists. And sure, of course, America could fall in the fullness of time, as it were, but terrorist tactics have never conquered a nation and never will. If the U.S. ceases to be, it will not be the result of terrorist attacks alone.
I wanted to know how the jihadists posed the kind of overwhelming threat Rap was talking about. If you're gonna go snarky, Mazaen, at least make it remotely relevant to the context of what I said.
Nowhere do I suggest that an invading army could not conquer America, only that the jihadists don't got one of those.
Quote:
You are also considering terrorists as isolated men that don't do much damage and are highly underestimating the big picture. The support of terrorism is unlikely just to be supported by men: governments also have been known to financially support terrorists and continue to do so. A few people setting explosives on a bus is an isolated incident. But would you say it is a war if the same terrorist attack financially supported by a government of a country?
Again, where'd I say that? I'm talking about the weapons and tactics of terrorism, not who pays for it. No country has ever been destroyed by terrorist attacks. Period. That's the big picture. When the jihadists raise an army and build a navy and air force and then gain the support of China, say, then you've got a case. But they haven't, aren't likely to and will never.
In the present circumstances it is pure paranoid fantasy that America will be conquered by Islamic radicals and our population converted to Islam at gun point. If I'm wrong in this, show me.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Lets just go from a point where there is no contention then, shall we Auraptor.
Among a myriad of other reasons, I hate George W. Bush for the irrefutable fact that he has said the following...
"Fool me once shame on...me...fool me twice......can't get fooled again."\
........
He tarnishes our image abroad by speech alone, were that were the only weapon in his arsenal.
you will deny the facts of all his other blunders with all the zeal you can muster, , but you can't deny that the way he trips over anythng he tries to say, he should be wearing motley, and not a presidential suit. You can't deny he said those things.
The man has been in politics too long not to be able to form a coherent preprepared sentence when called upon his handlers to do so.
You HATE a man because he can't speak well in public? I admit, it does tick me off as well, I get mad AT HIM for not taking the time to do something about his phobia, and seems oblivious about the impact such mutterings has on his/our image. But there's also another fact about him, he's a completely different guy away from the podium. Get him in a less formal situation, and he's quite the charmer. His appearance on Oprah is one good example.
Annoying , frustrating, maddening...all apply here. But to hate and loath a man because of it? Nope, doesn't even remotely makes any sense.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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At the risk of ticking off Chrisall....
Rap makes a good point. Is 'hate' really the right word? I won't deny Righteous9 hates Bush; perhaps he does, and it might be well founded.
However, one thing I notice is folks on web discussions seem to take 'extreme' positions for effect, to perhaps sway folks 'toward' the position the writer wishes them to go.
Do I hate Bush? Actually, no I don't. He's done plenty to tick me off; and I'd like to see him out of office sooner rather than later, but hate him? Nope.
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I'd join in this discussion, but I'm too busy imagining standing between Jessica Alba and a burka. Preferably a somewhat loose burka she's already wearing.
Umm, I'll be in my bunk.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Well, apply the real world consequences to his public idiocy, and then take into account the fact that he could either work on getting his shit together, or step down and let a more competent person represent our country, that frustration gets a little more vitriolic.
But honestly, I was just looking for a little common ground, a place we could agree on Bush being a fuck up. I'm still astonished we found some, and that I didn't learn that George W. is infact ahead of his time with cutting edge lingo that is standing in the way of our national language becoming Arabic, forcing the langua-fascists to struggle with the indecipherability of his 'amercan' speak.
If that were all, maybe I wouldn't HATE him. I hate him because he shows a genuine lack of humanity with just about everything he does. He has a tin ear for suffering. He's borderline sociopathic.
How deep does that hatred extend? I'm not exactly sure. I will be relieved when he's gone from office. I will be hopeful for our state if he is actually prosecuted for some of his lies and corruption.
But I will wonder who's lies they were, and question whether Bush was an orchestrator, or just an enabler with a disinterest in being curious.
And dually, through it all, I will feel sorry for the man, just as I do when he gets up and blunders through a speech. I hate what he does and what he causes, and to the extent that I think he doesn't give a shit, or even likes it that way, I start to hate him,
but I'm not without humanity, and I'm not without wanting to find redemptive qualities in people, even him. Hating isn't something I enjoy doing. It doesn't give me a reason to live, or an easy way to structure my sense of truth versus lies, or good versus evil, and I don't use it as an excuse to stop thinking critically.
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-That- makes much more sense, and I think comes closer to explaining why folks have such intense dislike and beyond for Bush.
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Quote:
Aw, crap.
Quote:
If you're gonna go snarky
I'd like if you actually debate with actual debate rather than just using put-down's to me when I have a different opinion to yourself. I didn't put you down, you might have noticed, when you had a different opinion. I meant being pretty as in a firefly quote in the Serenity war, not as a potshot. I think Americans are great. If you can't debate things then just say you don't have any facts or ideas to debate with.
I talked about some pretty legitimate topics that were related to what you said. Tactics of terrorism is only part of the big picture and is highly related to the financial aspect. But if you would like to just shut the debate down, and not talk about things related to your post then that's ok.
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How does Bush have a "tin ear for suffering " ?? Please, expand on that, if you will. And please, what are some of the lies you think he should be charged with ???
Through all your rantings, all I've been able to gleen from you is you hate his public speech blunders, and for that alone, he should be hated.
Pretty weak, if ya ask me. 
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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There was a video of him with people warning him of the dangers of herricane Katrina. No big deal it will just blow over. Where was he for days after the levys broke? On vacation. Torture no biggy we did that kind of thing in college all the time. Or my favorite giving an interview as governor of texas he mocked a woman pleading for her life over hear death penalty. This idiot was nowhere to be found during vietnam. But oh my god is he proud of having the title of "wartime president." He'll fuck the troops any which way but oh no, no draft cause that would be bad. Tax breaks to corporations to SEND JOBS OVERSEAS. Any balls at all or to get a shred of respect from me he would have changed it to getting the cuts to keep and bring jobs to the states. The first four years wasn't enough of saying one thing and doing another. No I do not think he "stole" the 2000 election, it was bought fair and sqaire. Am I the only one who saw the newsman reporting on the man from the sheriffs department being 2hours late delivering the ballots. I don't recall but I believe Nasau county was mentioned, you remember the folks up in arms swearing thats not how they voted. Everything he has done to make the rich richer his mission really is accomplished. Why do you think we even bothered with Afganistan? Maybe because the Taliban were the terrorists behind 9/11. So why go after Sadam? The taliban had a price on his head. Was he an ass definatly, but who in the world isnt these days. Why arent we in Africa then, there there are places where people with guns shoot those that dont have any because they have the guns. That sounds like they could really use our help. A country singer came out with a song called "have you forgotten" when people were begining to question the war. Now if you listen to the words the shoes on the other foot. I am not againt the republicans because I'm a dem. I'm not I'm independant I'll vote for the best person for the job, and in '04 after 4 years experience that wasn't Bush. We do need to find a way to fight this war better and bumbling isnt going to do it
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
That's both the lamest and the funniest thing that I've ever read, at the same time.
Congrats Rap!
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
George Bush is the only thing standing between Jessica Alba and a Burka.
I agree about having lol at that quote. I think that is the most hy-liarious quote I have heard this last week. But she Jessica Alba would be a great actress even if she wore a Burka you know.
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Rickker - your rant is as fanciful as it is funny. I don't have time to go through each point you brought up, but will simply say...it's all bunk.
Every last word of it.
Ok, except the part about making the rich richer That part I agree with. And quite frankly, I'm FOR making the rich richer. Poor folk don't run the economy or give anyone jobs.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
http://www.evilscale.com/vote.aspx?nomineeid=14Quote:
8.63
OUT OF TEN
Pretty Evil
I guess it's official Chrisisall
I do note for the record that this site lists Bill Clinton as being voted the "Most Good"; better even than Ghandi.
Edit to add: Stephen Colbert, John Stewart, Yoda, Super Mario, The Flying Spagetti Monster, Duff Man, Optmus Prime and Flipper all rate higher on the goodness scale than Martin Luther King Jr.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Rap,
I'll agree that Rickker's post is a bit weak on substantial detail; however, I was wondering if you would care to address the time lines and content of the following:
110th CONGRESS 1st Session H. RES. 625
Censuring the President and Vice President.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.RES.625:
Summary:
SEC. 2. CENSURE BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
The House of Representatives censures President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney for--
(1) misleading the American people about the basis for going to war in Iraq;
(2) failing to plan adequately for the war;
(3) pursuing policies in Iraq that have strained our military and undermined our homeland security; and
(4) misleading the American people about the insurgency in Iraq.
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Quote:It's all bunk, every last word of it.
Originally posted by leadb:
The House of Representatives censures President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney for--
(1) misleading the American people about the basis for going to war in Iraq;
(2) failing to plan adequately for the war;
(3) pursuing policies in Iraq that have strained our military and undermined our homeland security; and
(4) misleading the American people about the insurgency in Iraq.
Saint Bush & his devine work are not to be questioned.
Leadb, why do you hate America and God?
Rapisall
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Quote:I can't believe peeps actually read more on the wacky site; this was originaly intended to be a jokey Bush-bashing thread...
Originally posted by Geezer:
I do note for the record that this site lists Bill Clinton as being voted the "Most Good"; better even than Ghandi.
But serious discussions can be born in strange places.
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Auraptor, you asked for some, so here they are. Do me a favor, since you did ask, and I did spend a considerable amount of my morning typing this up, don't dismiss it like you did the earlier post that mentioned some of these things, with a word.
Note, these were all of the top of my head. I haven't even gone digging yet.
"You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." —President George W. Bush, to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005
"In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, a number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker. "Did you meet with any of them?" I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. "No, I didn't meet with any of them", he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. "I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, 'What would you say to Governor Bush?'" "What was her answer?" I wonder. "'Please,'" Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "'don't kill me.'" I must look shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel — because he immediately stops smirking. "
"Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere," Bush joked. "Nope, no weapons over there ... maybe under here?" (Bush pokes fun at himself at dinner)
But according to Rep. Jim Moran (D-VA), Bush was told that Webb’s son had a recent brush with death in Iraq and was warned to be “extra sensitive” when talking to the Sen.-elect. ThinkProgress yesterday spoke with Moran’s office and confirmed the congressman’s statement, first reported by hcc in VA:
“How’s your boy?” referring to Webb’s son Jimmy, who is serving in Iraq. Webb answered, “I’d like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President,” to which Bush responded, “That’s not what I asked you.” Webb then replied, “That’s between me and my boy, Mr. President.”
A paraphrase from the Authorized biogrophy of George W. by Robert Draper- to an aide after winning the Texas governorship bush is reported to have said "the blacks didn't come out for me like the hispanics did, so they aren't going to see much help from me."
.....................................
0:58 Andrew Card, having waited for a break in the reading, tells the president that a second plane has hit the second tower and it is confirmed that we are under attack (you can't hear it in audio, but it's pretty well accepted that this is what he said.)
1:00 - 1:10 The president sits still while students get their books.
1:10 - 1:45 The president sits still while students begin to drill.
1:45 - 4:25 The president picks up his book and the students continue to read.
4:25 - 4:30 The president, knowing we're under attack, tells jokes... "Really good.
5:14 - 6:00 The president takes questions, praises student's reading, talks about the importance of reading more than watching tv.
.........................................
"It was billed as a chance for the president to hear directly from the troops in Iraq. The White House called it a 'back and forth,' a 'give and take,' and so reporters who cover the White House were summoned this morning to witness a live video link between the commander in chief and the U.S. soldiers in the field, as the elections approach in Iraq.
"The problem was, before the event was broadcast live on cable TV, the satellite picture from Iraq was being beamed back to television newsrooms here in the U.S. It showed a full-blown rehearsal of the president's questions, in advance, along with the soldiers' answers and coaching from the administration.
today's encounter was billed as spontaneous. Instead, it appeared to follow a script."
defense secretary Allison Barber coaching the troops:
"If he gives us a question that is not something that we have scripted, Capt
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Rightious, you got it 180 degrees backwards on Katrina. I don't know where you got your info, but it's full of total b.s. Presidnet Bush asked BLANCO if she needed help, and SHE initially refused Federal aid.
There was no lying what so ever about Katrina. The storm HAD passed and nothing catastophic occured, until the next day, when the levees broke.
Blanco was the one who made it political. A woman Dem. Gov., she wasn't about to take orders from a male GOP President, until she absolutely had to.
It's the responsibility of the state and local officials to do all THEY can in such matters. They know the area, the needs of those closest to them far better than anyone in D.C. could imagine. To say Katrina and N.O. wasn't getting ENOUGH attention is asinine. That's ALL that was being covered by the major national media.
Your info is so far off on Katrina and N.O., I'm not gonna waste my time on the other nonsense you posted. All wrong, which isn't a shocker.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Leadb - all that is bunk. Sorry, but it is. Purely political muck raking by the far Left to ridicule the President.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Are you really going to tell me that for matters dealing with national disasters, the President has no role to play? Isn't he charged with the nation's security?
from time magazine, apparently.
The day the storm hit, she(blanco) asked President Bush for "everything you've got." But almost nothing arrived, and she couldn't wait any longer. So she called the White House and demanded to speak to the President. George Bush could not be located, two Louisiana officials told Time, so she asked for chief of staff Andrew Card, who was also unavailable. Finally, after being passed to another office or two, she left a message with DHS adviser Frances Frago Townsend. She waited hours but had to make another call herself before she finally got Bush on the line. "Help is on the way," he told her.
.........................
Edited to add,
I didn't say the media wasn't covering it. I said as our commander-in-Chief, bush has a responsibility to act in such a crisis. There was plenty he could have been doing, none of which he was.
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and be fair and waste some more time than that. I just wasted a shit load on you.
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Rap,
'Pure' muckraking. Ok, let's discuss one point. "(A) on September 25, 2002, President George W. Bush stated that `You can't distinguish between al Qa'ida and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror.';"
Folks later tried to claim Bush never linked Al Qa'ida and Saddam ; and everyone was so amazed that the public linked the two. Are you trying to say Bush was merely confused the day he made that comment? His handlers fed him bad lines? What?
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leadb - Bush was simply saying al Qaeda and Saddam were BOTH involved in global terrorism. Bush was absolutely correct. What you're attempting to do is paint Bush's remarks as saying Saddam was on equal footing w/ al Qaeda on ATTACKING THE USA, which he didn't say, nor did he even imply. For those who fabricate the link w/ respect to 9/11..... try opening your ears.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Oh, and because TIME MAGAZING says it, that's just how things were, right ? Sorry, that shit don't fly. Bush asked Blanco BEFORE the storm hit if he could mobilize the national guard into the city, and she refused ! Hell, by the time the storm hit, it was too LATE to move anything. You don't move convoys of trucks down roads when hurricane force winds are blowing trees, houses, cars all around, nor do you try to move when bridges are being washed out to sea. Un-fucking believable!
Sorry, but the Fed Gov't can't impose its will on a State when the state doesn't want help. All it can do then is respond, it can't act pro-actively. There are proper functions of Gov't at work here.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Ears are open. And I hear a man trying very hard to mislead folks.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
leadb - Bush was simply saying al Qaeda and Saddam were BOTH involved in global terrorism. Bush was absolutely correct. What you're attempting to do is paint Bush's remarks as saying Saddam was on equal footing w/ al Qaeda on ATTACKING THE USA, which he didn't say, nor did he even imply. For those who fabricate the link w/ respect to 9/11..... try opening your ears.
Thanks for replying; no need to bother responding to the other items on the record, you will simply have 'apologist rhetoric' to respond with.
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Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:Quote:Ears are open. And I hear a man trying very hard to mislead folks.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
leadb - Bush was simply saying al Qaeda and Saddam were BOTH involved in global terrorism. Bush was absolutely correct. What you're attempting to do is paint Bush's remarks as saying Saddam was on equal footing w/ al Qaeda on ATTACKING THE USA, which he didn't say, nor did he even imply. For those who fabricate the link w/ respect to 9/11..... try opening your ears.
Thanks for replying; no need to bother responding to the other items on the record, you will simply have 'apologist rhetoric' to respond with.
He didn't mislead me. I heard every damn word he said, and some how I didn't get any mixed messages. I think you WANT to blame him simply because he's Republican. That's where you tipping point starts and ends.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Didn't America have a law, that was at the time of Hurricane Katrina, that an American president can only intervene in a national disaster if the state governor gave permission?
It was my recollection that the president keenly asked a few times if he could intervene and the goverenor refused. Wouldn't that inaction then be the governor's or an America's law fault.
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Quote:I didn't say he misled you. Clearly, you are in tune with Bush and divine the wrong meaning from the spoken words. For 'fun', since this irritated me so much, I asked three people what this statement means `You can't distinguish between al Qa'ida and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror.' All three looked at me like I was nuts, but basically indicated that it meant there were no differences between the two; that either the Saddam was in al Qa'ida or was tightly 'engaged' with al Qa'ida. When reminded that Bush had said this prior to the war on Iraq, one remembered, but all three said (well, I'm making this PC so we don't offend any wee eyes watching) 'That's stupid'.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
He didn't mislead me. I heard every damn word he said, and some how I didn't get any mixed messages. I think you WANT to blame him simply because he's Republican. That's where you tipping point starts and ends.
Now, if you really want to stand by your 'interpretation' of Bush's words, go for it. I'm willing to admit he might not have been 'trying' to mislead; but the language was clearly misleading. You may, if you wish, say he said what he meant poorly, or you may defend the words he used. In any case, I have to conclude one of two things, either you do not understand English, or you are pushing 'apologist rhetoric'.
As far as him being a Republican; couldn't care. The above statement is based on
1) Ears open.
2) A clear understanding of the English language.
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I don't believe Sadaam had anything to do with 9/11. Sadaam wouldn't give any money away to terrorists becase he was to busy covering all of his belongings and toilets in gold.
After 9/11, making Iraq into a democracy was probably considered the best chance against defeating terrorism. Because Iraq was historically a leader in the middle east and their women were treated well and were allowed to freely no wear hajibs and were doctors, a democatic Iraq was probably hoped to be a leader in the region, which would influence other countries to stop contributing financially to terrorism, or instigating terrorism like Syria does with israel. When you get a leader, that is popular with people, then the influence spreads out to all parts of that country.
Lebanon was almost taken over by terrorists, and Palestine is currently led by terrorists.
Making Iraq into a democracy was probably easier and less bloody that fighting an ideology by invading 3 or 4 non democratic(even though they are said to be democratic) countries supporting terrorism.
The plan of making Iraq a democracy was probably not guarranteed to succeed, it was probably seen as the better option at the time (consider most people supported it in the polls at the start), to prevent another 9/11/. I agree it was slightly shifty way of attacking something that attacked America with the purpose of preventing another attack. It's kind of defense, but it's kind of not defense at the same time.
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Too often, folks don't want to give Bush credit where credit is due. As such, I'd like to say the following.
I believe the US was fully justified in going into Afghanistan, and Bush took considerable political risk in leading the organization of an international force to do so and drive Osama and his friends from his relatively cozy situation. Doing this was appropriate and probably a 'net gain' against the terrorists. Give Bush a 'well done' for this in my book.
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Yes, I imagine if Al Queda hadn't been forced from their cosy situation that terrorism and many more 9/11's would have followed. It is clear Bush did a good job with Afganistan and not having too many more 9/11 attacks proves that.
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Quote:The idea that a Browncoat would endorse invading a sovereign country to influence world events in what MIGHT be a positive way scares the shit outta me. Praytell, what is the average schmuck on the streets capable of buying into, if any of us can follow this line of thinking?
Originally posted by mazaen:
Making Iraq into a democracy was probably easier and less bloody that fighting an ideology by invading 3 or 4 non democratic(even though they are said to be democratic) countries supporting terrorism.
The Alliance will be accepted with open arms, I fear....
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Quote:Afghanistan went well, props for that. If they'd only stayed the course on THAT one....
Originally posted by leadb:
Too often, folks don't want to give Bush credit where credit is due.
*sigh*isall
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Quote:See everyone? I told ya.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Leadb - all that is bunk. Sorry, but it is. Purely political muck raking by the far Left to ridicule the President.
No matter what gorram thing you say, no matter what source or FACT, he will repell it with his pro-Alliance Scotch-Guard mentality...
No reason in the 'Verse can stop him!
Q: Did Nixon do anything wrong at Watergate?
A: Purely political muck raking by the far Left to ridicule the President.
Q: Did Carter mess up the rescue of the Iranian hostages?
A: Yes.
Q: Did Reagan give Oliver North free reign to back the malicious Contras with money from drug and arms sales?
A: Purely political muck raking by the far Left to ridicule the President.
Q: Did Clinton lie before Congress regarding his sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky?
A: Absolutely.
Q: Did Bush mislead the public with regard to Iraq's importance as a direct threat to the U.S.?
A: Purely political muck raking by the far Left to ridicule the President.
Please, peeps. He's drowning in a pool of his own convoluted, psuedo-objective bullshit.
Do him a kindness and just say, "Okay AURaptor, you're right. How could we have been so blind?"
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Chris....I know the facts are hard for you to accept, but accept them you must.
The sun does not revolve around the Earth.
Clinton did indeed have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky, and then lied about it later.
Bush is not the bad guy.
It's really not that complicated.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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The funny part is, Rap, that the point is not that Clinton didn't get a BJ and lie about it.
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first, what is your source that said bush offered help, and was rebuffed. I gave one source saying that Bush was asked for help and that he said it was on the way.
Where are you guys getting your information?
I seem to remember there being a point of contention. Blanco asked for help...bush insisted that she relinquish control, instead of just giving the fucking help.
Now on the flip side, you could say blanco stubbornly held out instead of accepting what you might consider reasonable terms, but it has nothing to do with my point.
I didn't suggest, or mean that Bush should have broken any standing law involving the reach of his office. My argument goes to that fact that he didn't seem to give it a second thought. He didn't have much of a problem with not helping, roadblocks or otherwise. He simply ignored the issue, went about his day and his fundraising...etc.
He didn't try to apply political pressure...he didn't try to draw attention to a pugnatious governor standing in the way of real aid, he simply....
did nothing.
Which truly leads me to doubt any assumption you might make without pointing me to some hard evidence that Bush asked Blanco if she needed aid, repeatedly and was rebuffed.
Which "respectable" source are you using today Auraptor? Freerepublic, Limbaugh, Hannity, or your own ass?
.................
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oh my god Mazaen...how many terrorist attacks have happened on U.S soil?
That's a load of crap, pointing to no 9/11 since 9/11. 9/11 was such a big deal because nothing like that had happened before.
The Cole wasn't hit in the U.S. either, and nobody has a problem counting that one when you want to make a point about clinton. How many more terrorist attacks have we actually suffered in Iraq at the expense of Americans since 9/11 compared to before it. Answer that for me, brainiacs.
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How would have you think 9/11 should have been approached Righteous 9.? It's good to get the ideas out there. I'm not going to critisise you and am interested to know different points of view.
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Personally, I would have told the country it was a great tragedy but that the US would rise to the challenge. And I would have gone to all the countries who sympathized (many around the world) and worked out policing agreements. And when it came to bin Laden, when the Taliban agreed to turn him over to the ICC I would have said fine - and not walked away before we had got him to justice.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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That's an interesting approach Rue. Maybe it would have been successful. It would have been less bloody than a war in Iraq/ Afganistan.
In 2001, the Taliban refused to hand over bin laden when the month deadline passed. What policies are you talking about- do you have any in mind? Are you saying that there should have been more time spent on getting the Taliban to hand over bin laden?
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Quote:
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, heh heh heh, just so long as I'm the dictator, heh heh heh."
—George DWI Bush
10 10 10 10 10
"Two words I never want to hear again in a sentence are Flash and Drive!"
-Nathan Fillion, Drive
www.myspace.com/driveonfox
FOX, MYSPACE & FIREFLY OWNED BY COMMUNIST CHINA!
www.piratenews.org/pntv-schedule.html
FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.cafepress.com/piratenews
Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/
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Quote:
Righteous9 wrote:
Sunday, September 16, 2007 19:49
....He didn't try to apply political pressure...he didn't try to draw attention to a pugnatious governor standing in the way of real aid, he simply....
did nothing
Because of this mindless, idiotic hatred toward Bush, we're forced, again, to go over the facts. 2 + YEARS after the events. Unfuckingbelievable.
Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana
The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html
The storm made landfall on August 29th, or 2+ days after this Presidential declaration came out.
Sunday, Aug. 28 2005 - 1 Day Prior
9:30 a.m. - With wind speeds reaching 175 mph, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin orders a mandatory evacuation of the city. The evacuation call comes only 20 hours before Katrina would make landfall – less than half the time that researchers had determined was necessary to evacuate the city.
—Gordon Russell, "Nagin orders first-ever mandatory evacuation of New Orleans," New Orleans Times-Picayune , 31 Aug 2005. http://www.factcheck.org/society/katrina_what_happened_when.html
8:30 p.m. - An empty Amtrak train leaves New Orleans, with room for several hundred potential evacuees. "We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way…The city declined, " said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. The train left New Orleans no passengers on board.
—Susan Glasser, " The Steady Buildup to a City's Chaos," The Washington Post, 11 Sept 2005. http://www.factcheck.org/society/katrina_what_happened_when.html
While some reporting of the events prior and after Katrina's landfall were confused and contradictory, honest mistakes were clearly made. Comments about the timeline of events were reported as fact, and then later retracted and corrected. Example - A story from the Washington Post incorrectly stated that Gov Blanco had not declared a state of emergency for LA, when she had indeed done that back on Aug 26th. The retraction by the Post came on Sept. 4th.
However, what the President DID try to do,and was blocked by Blanco, is another issue.....
" Apparently, the Administration tried to persuade the governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco, to issue an official request that the federal government take control of the Louisiana National Guard and the New Orleans police, but she refused, out of pride or mistrust or a desire to maintain some degree of control. "
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/gaynor/050928
( quoting Nicholas Lemann, in a comment posted on September 19, 2005 in The New Yorker's "The Talk of the Town )
As you can see from above, none of the facts I came up with were from Rush, FreeRepublic, Hannity or my own ass. From where do you get YOUR facts, I wonder.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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and none of them have any bearing on my point...
except the one from Whitehouse.gov, and frankly, Auraptor, I'd take your ass as a more reliable source,
but I'll take this one at face value, and assume it came on the day that it says it came.
My question, I'll ask again. Where was Bush? What was he doing? Is delegation enough in the face of such a disaster? Why 3 days before he got down there? Why no personal meeting with Blanco before that, if they were at odds with how to deal with the crisis?
Why did aid seem to come so late from the feds if it was all in motion already?
.................................
As an aside, Nagin may have declared a state of disaster too late for a full evacuation. Many, many democrats infact have a dislike for the man, though I don't know much about him. but is that to suggest that he acted irresponsibly, or that he got the information that this was infact going to be a bad one too late to make the call earlier?
On another note, inspite of a train here and there leaving without being full, or the busses that were parked, unused, things which should be, and were looked at, 90 percent of the residents were evacuated from South East Louisiana, apparently an unprecedented success rate of evacuation,
edited...
though, not good enough, as it sounds like the preparations for those who had no means to evacuate on their own, was lacking sorely.
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From wikipedia ---
[edit] Presidential role
President Bush observes damage from Hurricane Katrina over New Orleans, August 31.Bush was on vacation at his home in Crawford, Texas[13][14] when Katrina made landfall on August 29. During his appearance at the Navy base, which was primarily for the purpose of celebrating recent triumphs in Iraq, the Commander in Chief urged his fellow citizens to call an 800 number to make donations to hurricane relief.
Early Tuesday morning, August 30, a day after the hurricane struck, President Bush attended a V-J Day commemoration ceremony at Coronado, California.[15] 24 hours before the ceremony, storm surges began overwhelming levees and floodwalls protecting the city of New Orleans, greatly exacerbating the minimal damage from rainfall and wind when the hurricane itself veered to the East and avoided a direct hit on New Orleans.[16] Initial reports of leaked video footage of top-level briefings held before the storm claimed that this video contradicted Bush’s earlier statements that no one anticipated the breach of the levees.[17] Transcripts revealed that Bush was warned of possible overtopping of the levees.
The New York Times, describing the President's reaction in a September 1 speech, said, "Nothing about the President's demeanour yesterday - which seemed casual to the point of carelessness - suggested that he understood the depth of the current crisis."[18] Bush was also criticised for not breaking off his vacation until Wednesday afternoon, more than a day after the hurricane hit on Monday.[19] Conservative Bloggers and the Fox News Channel claimed that on the morning of August 28, the president telephoned Mayor Nagin to "plead" for a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans, and further claimed that Nagin and Gov. Blanco decided to evacuate the city only in response to that request. These claims, though widely reproduced, were never substantiated: Blanco told reporters that Bush had called and spoken with her (but not Nagin) only minutes before the already-scheduled press conference.[20]
.............
remember that the reason we've retreaded all this ground is to establish how this man just doesn't seem to be moved by suffering. He couldn't even be physically moved from his home by it.
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Rightious, you're simply not ever going to get it. Where was BUSH? Where the hell was the mayor ? What the hell was the Governor doing ??? THEY are the most responsible and in charge here, not the President. Of what purpose would it serve to have him down there right after the disaster? Roads were down, power was down, and the authorities had their hands full trying to rescue folks and assess the situation. Taking man power to set up a Presidential motor cade and security would have only gotten in the way, and taken focus OFF of the S&R operations which were ongoing. Hell, the President has no magical powers,where he can show up, wave a wand, and make things all better. WTF are you even thinking ???
To answer you question fully, the answer is no. The President has no inate responsibility to 'show up', take charge and run the rescue operations from the local command post. He met w/ the relevent authorities before hand, set the things in motion which were reasonble for the situation at hand, and waited to see where the storm would go and what it would do. That's ALL anyone can do at that level! Nagin had a plan, and failed to deploy it. He had buses, and failed to use them - they became useless pieces of junk. He had trains available which he refused to use, because he was too incompetent to do a damn thing about it.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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well we're still talking about different things, aren't we.
I'm talking about his visible lack of concern for the people in the disaster.
and he is responsible for his appointees jobs. If they are doing a shitty job, then he is.
Point fingers at Nagin and Blanco all you want, it would not excuse him for the lack of oversight of his own people, or his own attitude, which I'll remind you a second time, was the point of our back and forth, not who had more responsibility for the wreck that was Katrina relief.
...........
on edit,
I'll give credence to your point about the president arriving in New Orleans in person. It's only fair, and it did cross my mind. My question about him meeting with
Blanco is more a sense of my problem with his use of time during hte disaster. It certainly did cross my mind that that may not literally be the best way to conduct things.
but instead we have a situation, where she couldn't even get in touch with him. WTF is that? He was not available during a crisis? In this modern technological era, the only other time I can think of where the president was completely unreachable is....
oh yeah,
9/11.
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Folks,
One question to ask yourself, if the levees had held, how upset would you be with what Bush did or didn't do?
I've pondered this, and while I will agree that Bush could have done more, what he did do was in the realm of reasonable and prudent. Of course, there is some of the 'buck stops here' (or should) that Bush is at the top of the food chain, and thus holds some responsibility. In this case, I must agree with Rap that the -bulk- of the blame here rests with local, county (parish, whatever they call it), and state government.
Now, if we want to get into reconstruction discussions ... ;-)
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that may be an agreement with auraptor, but is in no way what premise of the discussion is about. I wasn't interested, in my rehashing of Katrina, in pointing out that Bush did a worse job than the locals. It's aside the point.
What part in your opinion was reasonable about his response though? Going about his day? throwing a phone number into one of his speeches?
1400 people died in that mess.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
1400 people died in that mess.
How many of those 1400 people were asked to evacuate but chose to stay?
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don't know...don't know what that has to do with anything.
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Actually, I tend to agree with BND on that; it does matter.
To me the real issue is; what did the staties or below ask for from the feds which was not provided in a reasonable time frame? If the answer is 'nothing', then Bush 'did his job'. I'd give him a c+ or a b-.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
1400 people died in that mess.
How many of those 1400 people were asked to evacuate but chose to stay?
Yeah cause being poor, on wellfare, unable to afford gas, not having a vehicle, having no where to go, being in a nursing home and unable to pull yourself up out of your deathbed and walk out of N.O. - those are just excuses for CHOOSING to stay behind and die in flood waters and extreme heat with no available water or sanitation.
I am amazed at the deliberate obtuseness evidenced by this thread.
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Yeah cause being poor, on wellfare, unable to afford gas, not having a vehicle, having no where to go, being in a nursing home and unable to pull yourself up out of your deathbed and walk out of N.O. - those are just excuses for CHOOSING to stay behind and die in flood waters and extreme heat with no available water or sanitation.
Yeah, too bad there were no buses or trains to help relocate those unable to do so themselves. People had other alternatives and chose not to take them. Short of physically throwing them on a bus against their will, what would you have done differently?
Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
I am amazed at the deliberate obtuseness evidenced by this thread.
I am amazed at the inability to seperate passion from reason evidenced by this thread.
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This amplifies my point that we're talking in circles here. You think the President is suppose to get on camera, bite his lower lip, wipe a tear from his eyes and then wring his hands to show he CARES for those affected by the storm. In my mind ,that's nothing but useless photo op b.s. I say he's suppose to keep a level head, assist as best he can and work with the local authorties in getting them what they need. When THEY fail to communicate, he can't do their job for them!
And wtf does 'oh yeah, 9/11' have to do with anything ?
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Seriously, the issue to me, as it was stated back before Auraptor asked me to clarify, is that Bush is an uncaring son-of-a-bitch,
and even if we were to go as far wrong as to say that Bush and his cronies provided everything they were asked for and then went about their day, buying shoes, standing in line at restaraunts, resting in Crawford,
that would still prove my point. He isn't invested in the lives of the people he "represents." It's not a matter of what he had to do, its a matter of what he could have done, its a matter of what he was interested and invested in doing.
......................
actually, all the shit you listed sounds like a good way to go for me auraptor.
I never suggested he get in front of the camera, unless he thought he could have affected the direction of the situation by doing so, but it seems to me, from the stuff I've read and posted, taht he was not infact, active in the areas you suggest he should be.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
1400 people died in that mess.
How many of those 1400 people were asked to evacuate but chose to stay?
That's part of the problem. Everyone down in N.O. knew the city was a disater waiting to happen. It's under the sea level, and generations have known that when 'the big one ' hits, it could get ugly. Biblically ugly. No one who lives in the area DOESN'T know this fact. Some say they have no way of getting out, and I say b.s. They didn't WANT to move, or worse, they were WAITING for someone to come by and get them out. When the city /state failed to act, and Nagin 'asked' them to leave, it was too late. Hell, there was even one story of a 15 yr old kid who stole a school bus ( before it got flooded out ) and drove his familly and kin to Texas. Dunno if he faces any charges, because he did what his Gov't wouldn't do, and that's enact the evacuation plan to get citizens out of harms way.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Righteous...
Good point; this was the original concern you expressed...
"I hate him because he shows a genuine lack of humanity with just about everything he does. He has a tin ear for suffering."
That's a tough one. So you are saying you expect folks in public office not to do shoe shopping on their own time during national disasters, even if there is nothing meaningful for them to be doing at the time?
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I expect that there is something meaningful they could be doing.
I expect taht they are tied in enough to know what those things would be, too.
Do you really believe there was nothing people could be doing?
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I will be honest; I don't know. I know when a situation like this comes up, I wish there was something more I could do; but the reality is until things hit a certain middle ground, I'd more than likely be just getting myself in a position to needing to be rescued than actually helping.
Part of the problem is our country's government is designed to allow the states significant autonomy. If the staties are not clear and forth coming with requests, it really ties the hands of the feds.
So, while I would have -preferred- a more hands on handling by the Feds; they did (IMHO) operate within their 'minimum requirement'. If someone can identify a case where a meaningful call for help was ignored by the feds, there's a major problem I can get behind. And if it makes you angry that the feds perhaps only did the 'minimum' I can understand that. But the problem gets to be, what 'should' they be doing beyond the minimum given limited resources, etc? Dunno. Like I said, I'm not thrilled with the Feds; but I can't say I'm angry with them either.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:The idea that a Browncoat would endorse invading a sovereign country to influence world events in what MIGHT be a positive way scares the shit outta me. Praytell, what is the average schmuck on the streets capable of buying into, if any of us can follow this line of thinking?
Originally posted by mazaen:
Making Iraq into a democracy was probably easier and less bloody that fighting an ideology by invading 3 or 4 non democratic(even though they are said to be democratic) countries supporting terrorism.
The Alliance will be accepted with open arms, I fear....
Ditto grasshopper, very scary...HIYAHHHH!!!!
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