BUFFY Season 8 #5
POSTED BY: jwhedonaddict
UPDATED: Friday, September 7, 2007 19:21
VIEWED: 7738
PAGE 4 of 5
Quote:
It's all good.It's actually an interesting discussion to have, as long as it all stays friendly...
LOL! hell i'm just made of friendly!
and thanks - you really made me look again at a few things y'know?
(music swells)
let's go to work...
let's go get drunk!
the end
stay shiny
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Funny, I took that line to be a shot at general American Cowboy mentality, not a particular Administration or political ideology, and as such, found it hi-larious...
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
"Oh, look: the Americans are relying on violence to solve their problems; what a surprise"
(Much like that line in Armageddon when the Russian on the space station called Americans "Bunch of cowboys...")Six-shooter Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Well, not as deeply as POSSIBLE, just not in your face.
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Like Chris said in his last post, make everybody happy by leaving the politics as deeply-buried in the subtext as possible,
And the Cordelia line was within my boundaries, 'cause she didn't say Bush or anything, and it may well be applicable to almost any president we might get in the future...
But the 'terrorist cell' thing in the Buffy comic is a little specific IMO- like in Heroes when they mention 'homeland security'...I don't need it that connected to today's reality, and I fear that it dates itself that way too.
Then again, in Star Trek 6 we heard "Only Nixon could go to China"...
I guess it's mostly good Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:*drools*
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
And Faith next week! Woo hoo!
Slobberin' Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
coming in on this late so with reference to those two lines, I don't think they were overtly political or necessarily joss injecting his politics into it. cordelia is a character in her own right with her own voice and that's totally something I'd imagine her saying, she's no the sort of person to get deep into politics but I can see her making throwaway remarks like that.
for the second one, come on, that's funny ok, so neither of our boys are originally american but angel has at least been naturalized. like chris said, I also see it as a general comment on american gung-hoism, not specifically political. it also mocks the mediterranean way "grazie, prego, kiss kiss", and in other episodes regularly mocks british cultural traits, you got to be able to laugh at yourself...
plus remember it's not a 50/50 split republican and democrat, and alienating one side, joss's shows and now the comics do very well all over the world in countries that have completely different political systems to you so it's kind of a narrow view to see it as being targeted just at you guys.
on topic, I really loved #5, yeah it was too short but that goes for all of them. actually I wasn't very impressed with #4 so I guess that also made it seem better. I really liked getting to see someone on the sidelines, and it really tugged on the heart strings, she seemed desperately alone compared to the others at slayer central and I'm having trouble reconciling this kind of treatment with what we know/expect of the scooby gang. she and the girl in italy are at best decoys and at worst bait. they don't have the experience, training or (necessarily) talent that she has and yet they're put out there as targets to take the heat off her... I don't see how they can think that's ok...
to whoever said further up "I doubt they'll be corrupted", I doubt your doubt... it's not like that isn't joss's favourite place to place to take characters 
--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
for the second one, come on, that's funny
Okay, point taken. I'll give you that one.
I'm sticking to my guns on the Cordelia line, tho. Mentioning like/dislike of political figures is just not something that was done on the two shows at any other time (unless you can point out another example I've forgotten; obviously-fictional ones like Senator Brucker don't count), so I just didn't see the need for it. Would Cordy say that? Yeah, maybe. But why does she have to? Why can't we just leave the overtly political stuff out entirely, regardless of which side of the aisle it's coming from? Like I said, I get enough of that stuff on the news, in the newspaper, and on the internet. Things like "Buffy", "Angel", and "Firefly" oughta be a 42-minute escape from reality.
Politics and religion are just two of the touchiest subjects you'll ever find, because they're areas that help form the foundations of what it is that people believe in--what makes a person who they are. They cause angry arguments and hard feelings, because no one likes to be told that what they believe in is crap, whatever those beliefs happen to be. Best just to steer clear completely if at all possible...
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Yo, I WANT to be challenged on my politics and/or religious beliefs! Tell me I'm full of crap if that's what you think, just back up that assessment with more than ad-hominem. The subjects are only touchy when one or more peeps decide in an argument that "I'm right no matter what you say, or what the issue is, or what the facts indicate!"
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Politics and religion are just two of the touchiest subjects you'll ever find, because they're areas that help form the foundations of what it is that people believe in--what makes a person who they are. They cause angry arguments and hard feelings, because no one likes to be told that what they believe in is crap, whatever those beliefs happen to be.
My only hard feelings come from having to unravel circular logic or confront "ignorant bliss".
Apart from that, I'm up for anything. My beliefs are not so fragile, or conversely, so set in stone that I'm easily rattled.
Example: in an ep of Angel they brought out the idea that trying not to get ANYONE killed is what could get EVERYONE killed- at first glance I took that as a slam at pacifists, or left-thinking in general. Then I thought about it, and realized that in many situations, that is fair to say. See? Challenge sometimes brings on realization. I find that to be fascinating, and sometimes even growth-inducing.
So don't dismiss the real world in our entertainment alltogether, Groos, it sometimes serves a purpose...don't ya think?
(better not say I'm full of crap, or I'll turn mean and green!!!!)
Chrisisall Banner
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I had some trouble with that too...Joss can't not 'shake our trees', eh? Well, we'll see where it goes...
Originally posted by charliethebloody:
I don't see how they can think that's ok...
Thanks for the 'mock back-up', Charlie
ChrisisallNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Thanks for the 'mock back-up', Charlie
s'what I do darling...
silly, silly, british man
--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Mentioning like/dislike of political figures is just not something that was done on the two shows at any other time (unless you can point out another example I've forgotten; obviously-fictional ones like Senator Brucker don't count), so I just didn't see the need for it.
ooh, that sounds like a challange
Quote:
Would Cordy say that? Yeah, maybe. But why does she have to? Why can't we just leave the overtly political stuff out entirely, regardless of which side of the aisle it's coming from? Like I said, I get enough of that stuff on the news, in the newspaper, and on the internet. Things like "Buffy", "Angel", and "Firefly" oughta be a 42-minute escape from reality.
I don't think so though, yeah there's a certain amount of escapism but the characters are also supposed to be living alongside us in our world (b&a at least) so it seems more odd to me that they don't make more reference to world events... you've got a group of intelligent, fairly well educated (ok, none of them finished college), socially aware young people, and they're not talking about the war? they're not making bush jokes?
I think politics is kept out of it for the most part, {and religion, I actually find it a bit frustrating the way they manage to ignore religion whilst using so much religious iconography and mythology) and I can see your point about not alienating people so I guess that makes sense, but I also want the characters to be believable and for that I think you need them to be rooted in the now, and the what's going on now. that was one of the things that made buffy so successful at the beginning, the way it was rooted in popular culture, and politics, particularly politics lite (ie. ripping the piss out of bush) is a huge part of popular culture...
--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME