Rayne Lovers and Haters
POSTED BY: crystalkei
UPDATED: Sunday, June 14, 2009 16:41
VIEWED: 28767
PAGE 5 of 10
ok, It is time to turn on the hate. Sorry, but I could not keep myself from spoiling this love in. Well, I will try to keep it light and not just bashing Rayne.
(In my defence I was given the go ahead to hate on it properly and have resisted for over a day. Even this post is pretty tame compared to my hatred of it. Hatred is the right word. I really do hate it with a passion.)
The following will contain a lot of assumptions. Some you may dislike, others you may find offensive. Please respond in kind. I am a large semi muscular man. I can handle it.
I will use numbers just to keep on top of my thoughts, not all of which mean anything, or go against Rayne. Call this my anti-Rayne-and-romance-in-general manifesto. (I am thinking as I am typing, so watch out for contradictions ahoy.)
1. Jayne does not Hate River. He does not feel any warmth either. If he didn't find her creepifying and a danger to them all, he would be indifferent. I see absolutely nothing there in between them to build any relationship ever. not in 5 years, ten or 15.
2. Firefly was planned from the start to last 7 seasons, with major plot points probably already planned out. (With Buffy I think I have read the future planning was done after Season 2, but don't quote me on that.)
3. Most of the characters of firefly are adults, unlike Buffy and to an extent Angel. In them character change is acceptable as part of the whole universe. Like a vampire having a total change of heart after probably hundreds of years of eating humans via a crush. (Talking about Spike, not Angel).
4. If it weren't for Rayne, I would lap up convo between River and Jayne. Now I read it with dread waiting for the Rayne to kick in.
5. I have read some Rayne. Some I was freaked out by when I started fan fic, others were by decent authors who went through the steps of getting them together. I still did not believe it as a major part of this is not just changing the character of river (which IS slightly possible), but also major changes in Jayne which I just did not buy.
6. I am of the opinion that the people who like to write Rayne are the romantics who think that they can tame a monster for themselves. They find that romantic. In the real world I would worry about physical harm in those relationships. (Even brutes have relationships where the other person defends them. "You don't understand! It was my fault that he beat me up")
7. While I do not really buy into a relationship between Mal and River, I DO see what connection is being twisted to support this (in the few scenes they have alone there is a peacefulness, acceptance that Mal lacks at all other times. Like he is at peace with what he has decided to do. And then there are the few symbolic times such as in OiS when River returns to Serenity, she does not just glide onto the ship, but Mal catches her. Symbolism? yes. But not for romance IMO. From River, in Ariel she does not lead Simon and Jayne to an exit, but to Mal and Zoe. Once again, a connection - but of safety, not romance.).
7a (because I am too lazy to change the other numbers...) At the same time in support, I have gone from "Obviously Mal will end up with Inara" to "Not a chance is hell". On another forum I really defended them getting together eventually, but when I thought about it, I just do not buy it any longer. IMO the only relationship less likely is Jayne/Inara. And Rayne obviously (the reader can decide which is more likely of the two.). I still can't see them getting jiggy with it. (See point 9)
8. I am a "why?" person. I want to know why somethign happens, how it happens etc. As was pointed out in another topic, There are also "Why not?" people. They ask why can't something happen.
9. The question that I would need answered is NOT Why would River fall for Jayne. It is entirely possible for that. She is crazy afterall. There is a chance she cannot control her hormones at all and will find everyone attractive. The question is Why Jayne (or Mal for that matter) would go for River. That is where it breaks down. Jayne to go f
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Yes, I already know how you feel about Rayne, NBZ. Thanks for not reiterating your opinions too nastily. I’m sensitive. ; )
I think you’ve clearly given good reasons why you can never go there.
From what I gather in the fan fiction ‘verse, there are the shippers *waves* and those who are more interested in full story arcs, focusing on extensive plots and explorations of what could have been. I’m not going to hate on either, it’s all a matter of preference.
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I am of the opinion that the people who like to write Rayne are the romantics who think that they can tame a monster for themselves. They find that romantic. In the real world I would worry about physical harm in those relationships. (Even brutes have relationships where the other person defends them. "You don't understand! It was my fault that he beat me up")
I’m an admitted romantic, obviously. But this…sure it might make an interesting plot point, (I’m actually exploring something like it with a pairing you’d all murder me for) but this is not the reason I was drawn to Rayne or write it.
Sure, there might be some taming involved when it comes to Jayne, but I personally think it’s more interesting to keep the lion in him. It’s the dynamic, clashing of personalities that makes the pairing more fun.
Which goes along with your claim that Jayne needs to be changed. I can’t tell you how many people whether it be friends, acquaintances, teachers, fictional characters ect… that I’ve initially loathed, mostly because I was quick to judge or misunderstand them, that I've come to like, love and respect.
Jayne doesn’t have to change. He just has to see River in a new light. I do think there were signs in canon that he was well on his way.
Also, I can easily separate fiction from RL. That is after all the attraction. Allowing these fiction characters to be in fact, fictional.
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*waves at Romanceguru* It's JD, I'm here icognito.
Hey, JD! Undercover, eh? Sneaky woman…
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“Noah's Ark is a problem.”
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yeah, thanks again for the understanding. Again. (it did also say haters in the title :) )
Jayne seeing River in a new light is where I will be forever stuck. Don't really want that to change either. :)
I see myself a traditionalist. Still can't accept that River would become the main pilot anytime soon, which a lot of fics to suggest. (two issues to overcome. 1. 100% Sanity (or atleast control over her actions). 2. Trust of the crew that she won't go crazy at any moment.)
If people are writing a realistic Jayne, kudos to them. he is tricky IMO as it is easy to make him child-like when he is not.
I have no problems with people writing Rayne. I just don't want to read it. Or it to become a default pairing. (A few months ago it was almost considered canon on here, before the revolt of the peasants.) As long as some thought is put into the writing/plotting all can be good.
oh, and a hilarious nugget from the firefly movie (that is the original 190 page transcript for the movie) script (which would make me extremely wary in fanfic as I know what would be coming next...)
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(On ride over to heist at start of film, )
Jayne (leaning forward): "River's touching me. She keeps coming over to my side."
(A beat, Mal tries to maintain his deflated cool.)
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Jayne seeing River in a new light is where I will be forever stuck. Don't really want that to change either. :) ...
Definitely, I could see that. Enjoying and appreciating their relationship as is.
I don't see him as a child either (childish at times, maybe), on that we agree. Although, it could be argued that men are in fact, overgrown children. Kidding! Maybe.
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(On ride over to heist at start of film, )
Jayne (leaning forward): "River's touching me. She keeps coming over to my side."
(A beat, Mal tries to maintain his deflated cool.)
Really?! Ha! That's too funny. Thanks for sharing that.
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"Jayne, your mouth is talking. You might want to look to that."
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Although, it could be argued that men are in fact, overgrown children. Kidding! Maybe.
That is more true than you may think. No need to kid about us.
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Oh, hell, I'd just written a scene that had the two of them bickering like kids in the shuttle and Mal losing his cool.
My theory is that Joss Whedon uses my head as an extra storage space.
My own take on any kind of relationship between them hinges on an assumption that Jayne has smaller siblings. (He has at least one brother that we know of.) There's just something in his behaviour that speaks 'big bro' to me. And River is used to being li'l bratty sister.
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Oh God, That sounds hi-larious, I don't have access to the longer script.
Anyway, I think Jayne and River could be very funny together, but again, I agree with what has been said earlier. I don't think Joss would have gone there for a looooong time. And even then it would be short lived, more like a romantic stepping-stone for River.
And I don't really see much potential for Mal and River. Mal is a serious mother when it comes to his heart. Mal, being the main character, in regards to River, I see her more as Mal's broken spirit.
From a writer's POV this is a much more engaging relationship to explore than a standard romantic
scenario. Mal talks to the audience through River (the love metaphor). She conveys his feelings for us, from OIS to the film. That is the subtext the writers want us to get, not a sexual attraction.
And those that are trying to find a romantic connection (in the subtext) have to look very hard. It is just NOT there. So leave what you think only can occur between a man and a woman, behind, the writers are challenging YOU to look beyond your preconcieved notions.
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That is more true than you may think. No need to kid about us.
I just wanted to be cautious in case you guys weren‘t aware. ; )
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My theory is that Joss Whedon uses my head as an extra storage space.
A while back, (2005) aliaspiral wrote a very humorous fic called Backseat Driver, which sorta plays off the whole squabbling in the back of the mule and driving Mal bonkers concept.
http://aliaspiral.livejournal.com/102756.html
I guess Joss uses her head too.
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"Pain is scary."
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I used to be an avid reader of Rayne fic. In fact, it was just about all I read (the next being Mal/River fic).
I haven't read that or any other Firefly fanfic for months now (I know, I'm a bad, bad girl 
). My opinions about Rayne have changed over time, but please don't take that to mean that I hate the ship. It's just that over time, I find myself becoming really, really picky about the fanfic I read. I think a Rayne fanfic must be exceptionally written for it to be pulled off. And unfortunately in my experience, those are few and far between.
To be honest, the more I watch shows from the Jossverse, it's harder for me to read fanfic, because I've become a real stickler for canon. Not that every fanfic has to adhere to those terms, that would be horrible. It's just that there are certain lines characters would never cross in my mind, and it's very hard not to take the easy route when writing (which is exactly the reason I've never actually finished a fanfic for one of the shows).
Anyway, getting back to the topic (what was that again?). I think someone would have to be the fanfic equivalent of Superman (or Spiderman, I always liked Marvel better 
) to make a Rayne fic work. But since I seem to be among that kind of company, maybe it's time I get off my lazy pigu and start reading again. 
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"But I neeeeed tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes."
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Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
That's a 'no'. I know you aren't a fan of my work, but please, credit me with a little decency.
I actually don't have any idea what you write. :)If its Mal/ River I won't. Just doesn't interest me.
Your post did seem to indicate it was some odd pairing which is why I guessed Simon and River.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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