Common or annoying characterization mistakes

POSTED BY: jetflair
UPDATED: Friday, October 19, 2007 12:13
VIEWED: 28421
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DANNIISUPERNOVA

Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Quote:
Originally posted by danniisupernova:
civilizedrules Simon/Inara
light_it, Simon/River
kayleewash, Kaylee/Wash
mal_inara, Mal/Inara
mal_river, Mal/River
rayne_shippers, River/Jayne
the_pretty_fits, Mal/Simon
zoe_wash, Zoe/Wash
jayne_simon, Jayne/Simon
enginesex, Simon/Kaylee
jaylee_ship, Jayne/Kaylee
iluvmycaptain, Mal/Kaylee
shiny_hats, Mal/Jayne
shinyheroes, Mal/Wash
mal_zoe, Mal/Zoe
ji_beyond_this, Jayne/Inara
geniusxmechanic, Kaylee/River
mercandthemate, Jayne/Zoe

The mind does boggle.

But you are right, it may have been unfair (atleast after that list.)

I do notice Zoe has only three pairing there. (probably should not have mentioned that. Giving people ideas and all...)

Well Zoe is usually a rare pairing person. I've read (and written) Simon/Zoe. I've seen Kaylee/Zoe, Inara/Zoe (V. rare)and Zoe/Saffron (!)

Femeslash is actually rather rare at times in our little verse. More m/m slash.

_____

"You know that's gonna fall off."
-----Nathan Fillion (to me while drunk)

How are ships unlike food?
1. If you try it and don't like it, you don't have to do it again.
2. You can have as much as you want, when you want.
3. Cravings can be very specific.
I mean, hello it's not as if there's 'ship police?

WYTCHCROFT

Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:57 AM

i'm in real danger of inventing a whole new one!..

Serenity as frickin Herbie in space!!!

jinkies!

make someone a browncoat today - don't drive nobody away

KAYNA

Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
Serenity as frickin Herbie in space!!!

Now there's an unsettling thought.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

MAL4PREZ

Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:11 PM

Wow - did this thread take off in the past day! Yay! I love character discussions. It energizes me to write, because there's no better way to show opinions about characterizations than to write them out.

Platonist: I don't think Mal's push with Inara in HoG is inconsistent. I think some part of him wants out of the cage that the war got him into (and I'm a total supporter of the Mal PTSD theory, obviously!) I think his ship and crew have provided him a safe place where he can take little steps toward healing, and the risk he took with Inara was part of that.

nbz - re Mal looking at River in the pilot. Yeah - I'm with you there. She looks so helpless and sweet, and I'm sure it got to him. Although, I think Kaylee's forgiveness of Simon was the kicker.

Mal ultra-aware of his surroundings? Absolutely! Like you say, he does read people extremely well, and he's very good at playing them when he needs to. But that's outer awareness. The thing I'm wondering about is inner awareness. For example... imagine a scene where Mal sits on the dark bridge and thinks: "I'm such a closed-off lonely man. The war really did a number on me, and I wish I could be like my old self. I'm just too hurt... But, hey - my crew has become special to me. I really... care for them... and it gives me hope. I wonder if I'm ready to take a risk... maybe I could really love[ Inara/River/Simon/OC/Mal pairing flavor of the day]"

Would that sit well with you? Do you think he's consciously aware of himself like that?

My take: Part of PTSD is an inability to recognize it and face it, so in my fics Mal is generally unaware of the real source of his moodiness. He kind of just goes with it, and does the best he can day-to-day. Not understanding why he is as he is makes it a vicious cycle, because he blames himself for the times when he's a callous jerk, and so has gotten to think of himself as a mean old man. Which darkens his mood, which makes him be mean, etc...

I know that this is my own version of Mal, and could be easily disagreed with. I mean, he does spend a lot of time being dark and broody. What the hell is he thinking about when he broods?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NBZ

Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:41 PM

Yeah, the PTSD is a stroke of genius. I had totally missed that.

Post-Serenity (where my mindset is right now), I can see Mal both wanting to keep close to all his crew, and pushing them away at the same time.

It will give a lot of meaning to what he thinks and says.

I don't think he is too aware of himself, except for the gut feelings. Anger, shock, happiness, dread, guilt etc. He must be aware of some of his shortcomings (but probably cannot see another way. He can't just lie down now can he?). he is not a moron. (but does he wear body armour?)

Quote:
What the hell is he thinking about when he broods?

That made me laugh.

But with the brooding, I doubt he really gives himself too much time for it. more of an action figure, keep his mind occupied with something or another. Like after the BDM make he May try to make sure that every single part installed by "not crew members" during the repair is rechecked. Because there may be a tracking device, sabotage.

Is he being paranoid, or prepared? or is a grown captain hiding from his own crew?

Until the BDM, where he was more prone to just walking off (where to?), he did not seem to give himself much time to think unless there was a significant matter to be pondered over. like at the start of OiS. Otherwise it was a routine of action, work, focus on others' problems. (after being tortured you would expect the focus to be on him... but he is more worried about Book, Simon, Kaylee, Wash and Zoe.)

In the BDM, Where does he walk off to when:

After the initial job and shooting the Reaver? Actually his quarters. But what about after Book dies, where does he go? What about after shooting that guy on the ship ("get to work" and then walks off)? While going through Reaver-space? (Shuttle 1) After watching the broadwave? (we stay with River, but he just walks out)

He has separated himself from the crew already, as in the series, when there were tasks to be done, he actually helped out. here he gave orders or walked off.

PLATONIST

Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:00 PM

Isn't this an amazing thread!

mal4prez: I'm so with you on the PTSD. And it fits well with what Nathan and Joss have both said about each character representing a part of Mal that Mal lost during the war. A fan actually came up with a list of what each of the 8 original characters represent, and how they react in each episode...like Wash, the lost little boy or River, his broken spirit, and so forth...anyway I can't remember what site or how I managed to find myself there, but it was interesting.

And, yeah, what is Mal pondering on when he broods?

Well, I know if I ask my husband that question he answers; what do you think? It's what all men think about every 3 or 4 minutes. And it's not, what shoes am I going to wear with my new outfit?

All of Mal's behavior makes perfect sense to him, nothing complex or inconsistent there. Brood and/ or get drunk. Yep, no problem, nothing to understand, get to work, get the job done... Must be a guy thing.

nbz: Mal walking away... good observations, I've noticed that when he can no longer keep emotional face, especially in front of the crew, he exists.
Like when Inara threatens to leave in the pilot, in front of the crew, you can actually see Nathan swallow all his real feelings down. He pauses and then tells her maybe it's for the best, before leaving. Or heck, anytime they come to an emotional verbal showdown, he splits.

And, I'm of the opinion that Mal is still disjointed, even after Miranda, to be a bonafied
acting member of a relationship with anyone. I do think that's what he wants, the loving wife, the kids, etc. But it's back to the mean old man, it's out of his grasp. He does tell Saffron "he wouldn't make a very good husband right now."
He needs a few more battles and wins before he can secure that future.

That's why, when in fic, when he is paired up with anyone beyond a nighter or two in a "lovey-dovey-happy-sappy romance, I'm like, get real, nothing is that simple in this verse. Mal just isn't, Oh! I'm in love with so and so now because we like the same guns or now it's this one because I won't have to say how I feel because she can read my mind and everyone feels sorry for her 'cause of the pens and all.

A most annoying character mistake.

WYTCHCROFT

Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
Isn't this an amazing thread!

damn helpful too!

EMPIREX

Monday, August 20, 2007 1:05 AM

>>Mal just isn't, Oh! I'm in love with so and so now because we like the same guns or now it's this one because I won't have to say how I feel because she can read my mind and everyone feels sorry for her 'cause of the pens and all.<<

I love this thread. Very interesting. But... Platonist, I've been wracking my brain and this is gonna drive me nuts, so I have to ask... What
is this "and everyone feels sorry for her 'cause of the pens and all" business? Are you referring to River? Of what "pens" do you speak? I'm so confuzzled!!!

Patsy: When you were two years old, we tied you to the central reservation of a motorway.

Edina: But you were like a homing pidgeon, sweetie....back within a week!

DANNIISUPERNOVA

Monday, August 20, 2007 1:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
i'm in real danger of inventing a whole new one!..

Wow. I'm very curious as to what it is. Very curious indeed.

_____

"You know that's gonna fall off."
-----Nathan Fillion (to me while drunk)

How are ships unlike food?
1. If you try it and don't like it, you don't have to do it again.
2. You can have as much as you want, when you want.
3. Cravings can be very specific.
I mean, hello it's not as if there's 'ship police?

WYTCHCROFT

Monday, August 20, 2007 1:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by danniisupernova:
Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
i'm in real danger of inventing a whole new one!..

Wow. I'm very curious as to what it is. Very curious indeed.

_____

a whole new character mistake and possible new cliche (!) i meant. the ship Serenity is the 10th character... but i now see the trap of going too far with writing this (tho i may already have done so!) and creating Serenity as - Herbie in space! eek!

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