Common or annoying characterization mistakes
POSTED BY: jetflair
UPDATED: Friday, October 19, 2007 12:13
VIEWED: 28421
PAGE 5 of 9
-vump 4 nbz -
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Just read the original post be Jetflair. uncannily accurate.
@Katesfriend, would love to know who you think has the most accurate Mal. Should be a good read at the very minimum.
A question about River - why is she portrayed by some as having the screams of 30 million people inside her head up until Miranda?
As far as I know, she was probably in the vicinity of one person - someone who had already seen that video we see in the BDM, and she found that memory very traumatic - didn't really understand it, more or less forgot about it (but in a bad/traumatic way or something. am no expert at all in how this is supposed to work).
Going back to a previous point while Mal WAS exploiting a willing River at the start of the BDM, I do not have any issue with that. Can't really say it would have been safer to stay on the ship either.
Post BDM she will have to deal with the guilt of survival. This could become a major issue - especially as the people around her will not be the best of company. Mal has not got over the War - let alone the new deaths, Zoe has just lost Wash (which River may feel guilt over too), Simon still pines for his old life that he willingly gave up. Inara has already had two midlife crisis. Kaylee and Jayne I am not too sure about.
One thing about stereotypes is that they are there because some people like to write them, others like to read them.
@ the Jaylee angle, I was very surprised when I came across it. It was something that I did not see at all until it was pointed out(about 2 scenes that give less than a hint to me).
In the fanfic 'verse, Jayne is almost a male whore. I think he has been partnered up with every single of the BDH, and a lot of OC's too. That really is disconcerting. Unfair competition to everyone else I say. (by which I do not mean everyone else should get more romance, but that there should be less overall. You can write the best prose in the world, and I will still read "A shoots B gets double crossed by C".)
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This is a really interesting thread. I have to say I am intrigued. I don't read a lot of fic because I find it difficult to wade through everything we've got out there. I have been turned off by many if the characterization issues mentioned here. Now maybe I don't have so much right to post here but I'm going to anyway.
Now someone mentioned Mal as a PTSD sufferer. Yes! were can I find these fics? I have some experience with this as my father suffers from it (and he really identifies with the character of Mal). It can make for a really complex and contradictory person. My dad is a wonderful, caring, gentle, genrous person. He's also angry, bitter, bloody minded and cruel. He's also afraid, not that most folk would know it, but that fear helps to cause a lot of that second list. I have yet to come across a fic with a properly comlex Mal (but as I said, I don't read many of them these days).
I also have an issue with some peoples assumptions about Inara, her job, and Mal's feelings about the later. I don't hink she's in anyway ashamed of her job, on the contrary, she's proud of it. It's a position of skill and respect that she worked hard to gain. In the verse, there is no stigma attached to what she does as there is in our own society and people shouldn't try to create one in thier stories. If she and Mal were to ever hook up (which I actually think is unlikely) I don't believe she would stop being a companion. She might scale back her activities to a few select clients but being a companion isn't just what she does. I believe it is a part of who she is.
And I don't think Mal has any real issues with Companions. I believe him when he says he doesn't respect it but I imagine there are a lot of things he doesn't respect. And he's a lot more comfortable with the straight forward whores at the Heart of Gold. The trappings of politics and power that go with the title of Companion make him a bit uncomfortable but not the job itself. And when he calls Inara a whore it's not because he dislikes what she does or really believes she is one. It's because he knows it's the surest way to put a barb in her.
Holy CRAP! I've babbled a lot more than I planned to. Feel free to ignore my ramblings.
and Cpt. Daddy...no
Just..no....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
@ the Jaylee angle, I was very surprised when I came across it. It was something that I did not see at all until it was pointed out(about 2 scenes that give less than a hint to me).
In the fanfic 'verse, Jayne is almost a male whore. I think he has been partnered up with every single of the BDH, and a lot of OC's too. That really is disconcerting. Unfair competition to everyone else I say. (by which I do not mean everyone else should get more romance, but that there should be less overall. You can write the best prose in the world, and I will still read "A shoots B gets double crossed by C".)
I really think that it depends on the specific Browncoat. To my knowledge (I definately get around in the fanfic community) I've seen just about every possible pairing with EVERYONE! Name a pairing, I've seen a fic with it in there. To give you an idea, here's a list of pairing communities on LJ and not even close to all of them:
civilizedrules Simon/Inara
light_it, Simon/River
kayleewash, Kaylee/Wash
mal_inara, Mal/Inara
mal_river, Mal/River
rayne_shippers, River/Jayne
the_pretty_fits, Mal/Simon
zoe_wash, Zoe/Wash
jayne_simon, Jayne/Simon
enginesex, Simon/Kaylee
jaylee_ship, Jayne/Kaylee
iluvmycaptain, Mal/Kaylee
shiny_hats, Mal/Jayne
shinyheroes, Mal/Wash
mal_zoe, Mal/Zoe
ji_beyond_this, Jayne/Inara
geniusxmechanic, Kaylee/River
mercandthemate, Jayne/Zoe
and some of the pairings from another general jossverse shippage site are amazing! I think it's unfair to say that this phenomenon is applied specifically to Jayne.
_____
"You know that's gonna fall off."
-----Nathan Fillion (to me while drunk)
How are ships unlike food?
1. If you try it and don't like it, you don't have to do it again.
2. You can have as much as you want, when you want.
3. Cravings can be very specific.
I mean, hello it's not as if there's 'ship police?
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great post! got me thinking! c'mon peeps - get recommending...
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I agree with everything you said Kayna.
Inara should and is respected by everyone, but Mal for what she does.
I do think there are philosophical questions to consider when labeling her a "Companion", though. Is it what she does or what she is?
After all Book wasn't born a Shepherd, but it is what he does and what he is.
Last I looked we are all born human, including Inara. She may always Companion, but is that what she is?
I think this may be the cause of her inner struggle (beyond the love issue) and I love fics that explore this.
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Oh no! I didn't mean being a Companion is all that she is. I just mean that it is a part of what she is. None of our BDHs are so simple as to be accurately labeld with a single word ot title whether they've chosen it or not. Just like real people. That's what makes them so wonderful.
And as to he inner struggle, I agree but I also think part of it is about how others percieve her. So much of what she does is about other people and their images of her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
Well, I see River as an adolescent. A gifted traumtized one at that. And if that's not complex enough as it is; I don't know what is.
My big cliche grip with her fic portrayal is that she not only has knowledge ("all the math in the verse"), but she is infinitely wise about the nature of life. And when her dialog is plucked right out of a fortune cookie.
And post BDM, when she goes from 17 to 30 in 6 months time in order to be paired up with a BDH.
I'm always left asking, where's my River? She didn't have to to grow and discover herself and face her demons. ARHHHG!!
Thank you! Granted I am not one that is a good enough writer to be talking about the flaws of writers and canon, but one thing that still gets me is the Post BDM, mature, lucid River. Granted River was immensely better by the end of the BDM, but I don't think she would end up completely healed and able to carry on a normal life as Serenity's pilot/weapon/knower-of-all/lover-to-someone.
I can see her doing better, but still always just ever so slightly 'off', articulate, yet still disjointed in her dialog and somewhere mentally out in the distance because let's face it, after being labotomized a person is never going to be a 100% (unless 500 years from now the surgeons can fix the damaged area of the brain, hey if you want that, be my guest). Like you said, she still needs to learn and face alot of demons. I also think she would really keep that childlike quality for a very long time. Her body may mature, however I think her mind would be stuck in a state of genius adolesence because it has been through so much trauma she's unable to mentally grow in that aspect because her mind has just sort of retreated into that safe place that is childhood. And it all would just keep her as this incredibly multi-faceted creature that is just on the cusp of normalicy, yet not able to reach it.
I doubt relationships for her as well, because besides the fact that she's far too young for anyone, I don't think there's someone out there in the 'verse that would be capable of understanding and taking on all of the baggage that she comes with. There would be baggage, lots of baggage, we're talking hotel rooms of it. It would be insanely hard for anyone to wrap their heads around her mental state as well as her past and understand the complexities she faces every day.
This all comes from a person who writes a generally happy Mal and has immense problems canoning Inara
Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash
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aint much to quibble with there!
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Quote:
Originally posted by danniisupernova:
civilizedrules Simon/Inara
light_it, Simon/River
kayleewash, Kaylee/Wash
mal_inara, Mal/Inara
mal_river, Mal/River
rayne_shippers, River/Jayne
the_pretty_fits, Mal/Simon
zoe_wash, Zoe/Wash
jayne_simon, Jayne/Simon
enginesex, Simon/Kaylee
jaylee_ship, Jayne/Kaylee
iluvmycaptain, Mal/Kaylee
shiny_hats, Mal/Jayne
shinyheroes, Mal/Wash
mal_zoe, Mal/Zoe
ji_beyond_this, Jayne/Inara
geniusxmechanic, Kaylee/River
mercandthemate, Jayne/Zoe
The mind does boggle.
But you are right, it may have been unfair (atleast after that list.)
I do notice Zoe has only three pairing there. (probably should not have mentioned that. Giving people ideas and all...)
Quote:
Originally posted by TUJIAOZUO(about River):
I doubt relationships for her as well, because besides the fact that she's far too young for anyone, I don't think there's someone out there in the 'verse that would be capable of understanding and taking on all of the baggage that she comes with. There would be baggage, lots of baggage, we're talking hotel rooms of it. It would be insanely hard for anyone to wrap their heads around her mental state as well as her past and understand the complexities she faces every day.
On the other hand she is a teenager with raging hormones and she can not ignore anything.
Not likely to be anything successful, but I do think it will cross her mind. She could be attracted to anything with legs. And then being around people like Inara and Kaylee, who are more lax about the whole subject to further influence her thoughts... it can get very weird and icky.
We see the start of that in OiS where she has to break away from wathing Zoe and Wash in the cockpit, and then again in the BDM spying on Simon and Kaylee.
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