Spike at the end of Season 6
POSTED BY: Zeek
UPDATED: Thursday, August 9, 2007 15:52
VIEWED: 5158
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Plus what kind of demon fights to destroy itself? That just doesn't make any sense. I mean when you become a vamp a demon takes over right? So, why would that demon want to be kicked out by the return of a soul? Doesn't make any kind of sense.
... Yeah I see what you're saying.
The contrary thing about the whole 'Spike wanting his soul is that; in order to want it in the first place you would NEED a soul. I never bought into the fact that Spike felt regret over the near rape of Buffy. I mean he is a Vampire. They aren't supposed to feel any of this in the first place. Where does this feeling come from if he has no soul to start with? It doesn't make sense.
However lets say for arguments sake he does feel remorse and is genuinely sorry and that his love for Buffy is THAT strong, so strong that it overrides the accepted rules of being a Vampire. Why then would he need his soul? He pretty much had all the attributes anyhow...
I think the 'misdirection' in the heads of the writers seemed like a big deal, but in all honesty I didn't feel it, I think it missed the mark, and it made little difference to Spike later on.
www.cirqus.com
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i love the whole spike redemption arc through B7 and A5 but the 'soul' aspect is not handled well in B6 (ie never bloody mentioned till the end 3 writers in search of a climax!)
i think the writers kinda miscommunicated with one another here as Spike's vocal tone is uneven 'Bitch' is meant to (and does) alienate the viewer yet the narrative and arc call for sympathy - i love and hate the whole 'rape' issue thing with equal and ambivalent measure and my views change everytime i watch. mayve that was good writing after all.
Still Spike is back from Lies through all of A5 and thats what counts!
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Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I never bought into the fact that Spike felt regret over the near rape of Buffy. I mean he is a Vampire. They aren't supposed to feel any of this in the first place. Where does this feeling come from if he has no soul to start with? It doesn't make sense.
actually it makes perfect sense, Spike's entire motivation for absolutely everything he does throughout Season 5 AND season 6 was to win Buffy's love....
it had nothing to do w/wanting to be good,
it had nothing to do w/being a big bad vampire,
it was all about getting the girl.
His regret w/the attempted rape was that he could see that he had lost every speck of trust Buffy had previously given to him....
If he wanted her (and I think that this was ALL he wanted) then he had to find a way in,
and he was angry and motivated and frustrated...
but he knew that it was all about the soul.
Of course after he got the soul everything changed for him, that is when he started looking at the world differently, that is when he worried he wasn't going to be able to over come the evil he had done in the past.
Not that he would brood about it like Angel did, because he was just never a brooding kind of guy.
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Quote:Som, he DIDN'T regret it, but he knew he should! He knew he'd never have Buffy without REAL feelings, and for that he needed a soul. The shadow of William was enough to push him to do it. He was tormented without love. And there was only one way to truly love again....
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I never bought into the fact that Spike felt regret over the near rape of Buffy. I mean he is a Vampire. They aren't supposed to feel any of this in the first place.
Methinks your non-love of the character colours you opinion....
ChrisisallNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Right on Embers!
Originally posted by embers:
If he wanted her (and I think that this was ALL he wanted) then he had to find a way in,
and he was angry and motivated and frustrated...
but he knew that it was all about the soul.
Of course after he got the soul everything changed for him, that is when he started looking at the world differently, that is when he worried he wasn't going to be able to over come the evil he had done in the past.
ChrisisallNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by embers:Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I never bought into the fact that Spike felt regret over the near rape of Buffy. I mean he is a Vampire. They aren't supposed to feel any of this in the first place. Where does this feeling come from if he has no soul to start with? It doesn't make sense.
actually it makes perfect sense, Spike's entire motivation for absolutely everything he does throughout Season 5 AND season 6 was to win Buffy's love....
it had nothing to do w/wanting to be good,
it had nothing to do w/being a big bad vampire,
it was all about getting the girl.
His regret w/the attempted rape was that he could see that he had lost every speck of trust Buffy had previously given to him....
If he wanted her (and I think that this was ALL he wanted) then he had to find a way in,
and he was angry and motivated and frustrated...
but he knew that it was all about the soul.
Of course after he got the soul everything changed for him, that is when he started looking at the world differently, that is when he worried he wasn't going to be able to over come the evil he had done in the past.
Not that he would brood about it like Angel did, because he was just never a brooding kind of guy.
Well not entirely.
Spike was taking care of Dawn at the seasons beginning and at that stage Buffy was dead. So I stress again. Spike was doing good irrespective of 'reward' if you will from Buffy.
As for the attempted rape of Buffy and losing her trust... Well maybe. But he and Buffy had been doing the beast with two backs before this. He wanted Buffy to want him, to love him. He clearly had non vamp sentiments. Their rather awkward relationship had given Spike hope that she could possibly do this [love him] and that hope again I say is contrary to vampires... Indeed it's in line with already possessing soul type qualities.
Its just my thoughts as I muse all these years later.
www.cirqus.com
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Quote:Yes, Spike was unique. Hope seeped in where it could not/would not in other vampires. He retained a nebulous, imperfect connection to his soul after all, the forces of Darkness could not sever it completely. Like a smell that can't quite be distinguished, or a distant memory that can't quite be grasped...
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Their rather awkward relationship had given Spike hope that she could possibly do this [love him] and that hope again I say is contrary to vampires... Indeed it's in line with already possessing soul type qualities.
Deep Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Som, he DIDN'T regret it, but he knew he should! He knew he'd never have Buffy without REAL feelings, and for that he needed a soul. The shadow of William was enough to push him to do it. He was tormented without love. And there was only one way to truly love again....
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I never bought into the fact that Spike felt regret over the near rape of Buffy. I mean he is a Vampire. They aren't supposed to feel any of this in the first place.
Methinks your non-love of the character colours you opinion....
He,he well tainted some it is maybe, sure. But you know I'm still not sold on the idea of Spike wanting to have Buffy. It just doesn't add up. I just don't get where it comes from.
Oh and for the record I love the Spike character in Season Two. That's when he makes sense (to me anyways) Thereafter his role as a foil for the pratt falls is funny, but I didn't get the relationship.....
Just me I guess...
www.cirqus.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Yes, Spike was unique. Hope seeped in where it could not/would not in other vampires. He retained a nebulous, imperfect connection to his soul after all, the forces of Darkness could not sever it completely. Like a smell that can't quite be distinguished, or a distant memory that can't quite be grasped...
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Their rather awkward relationship had given Spike hope that she could possibly do this [love him] and that hope again I say is contrary to vampires... Indeed it's in line with already possessing soul type qualities.
Deep Chrisisall
Wow! You type fast mate... Either that or you have some kinda cross atlantic wormhole link thingy onto my screen as I type!!! Yeah I think that's it. They made Spike unique I suppose with.... little explanation.
www.cirqus.com
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Truth is, without season 7, Spike would not be as liked as he is by me; the whole sacrifice thing was what made me truly care. And the sleeping (JUST sleeping) with Buffy thing...*snif*
Soppy Chrisisall
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