BUFFY Season 8 #5
POSTED BY: jwhedonaddict
UPDATED: Friday, September 7, 2007 19:21
VIEWED: 7738
PAGE 3 of 5
And as usual, stupid me misses the big picture. 
You're right; now that we have the comics, everything makes sense regarding Andrew. And while I do get your point about Angel and Spike, I still get a little angry about it. Spike I can understand, but not Angel. If he was supposed to love Cordy so much, then you would think he would show more grief regarding her death, and he wouldn't resort to such juvenile behavior regarding Buffy. But then, maybe that's just me.
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"But I neeeeed tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes."
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Yanking the thread back on topic for a bit!
Issue #5: I loved it. I'm not even sure why I loved it, but I did. Maybe because I always have a yen for stories about the people in the background of the Buffyverse that we never get to see. Maybe because I'm a big fan of non-linear storytelling. Maybe because it took a throwaway line from the first issue, showed you the person behind it and then made you care just in time to rip your heart out and do the lambada on it. These are the things I love best about Buffy.
Yes, the story was outside the main arc, but I think it brought up a number of important issues. Firstly, there's no safety in numbers. Slayers are still dying, and dying hard, brutal deaths. Secondly, the calling seems to have vastly varied effects on different people. I think that's going to become important in the future. We've already seen the effect being called has on someone who is insane (thanks to Dana in 'Angel' season 5) is it possible that we'll come across someone who has actually been driven insane by being called? It doesn't seem that far fetched.
Thirdly, this girl never met Buffy. She posed as her, risked her life to protect her and the other slayers, died doing her job and never met Buffy. It shows that the slayers have pretty much turned into an army, just as the General in Issue #4 feared. I don't think they even realise that they have, but it's the truth. It may not be a bad thing, but I can't see it not having consequences. If these girls never meet Buffy, how long are they going to follow her orders? Slayers aren't meant to be followers, remember. They're born to be leaders.
I liked the way this story showed us one of the nameless slayers we haven't yet had a chance to meet. The events at the end of 'Buffy' season 7 changed the lives of random women all over the world. It's about time we saw some of that, and some of the fallout. It also yielded two absolute kickass moments for me: The first being when I noticed that all the women shown in 'the chain' were the women featured in the 'Tales of the Slayer' comic, and the moment when the newly called slayer kicks the picnic table (and her friends) out of the way of an articulated truck, throws another guy out of it's path and then takes the brunt of the impact herself. Seriously, how cool was that???
Okay, this is turning out to be longer than I expected but anyway, this one gets my yea vote. And Faith next week! Woo hoo!
Even the littlest Joss chicks are absolutely kickass
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pretty much agreeing with ya there.
just to add (and despite how rabid people can get) i love the different views season eight is kicking up - the groans of dissapointment, sighs of happiness and moans about waiting bring back the thrill of watching the show first time around...
loved the art on no.5
loved the andrew vi commercial (always liked her - a little willow to kennedy's jr faith)
found the whole thing touching.
flaw: the truck scene seems to have suffered from editting.
am real happy with season eight - i have my joys (the whole dreamscape - tara's cameo etc) and cursings (warren?! - ahh jeeeeez) and discovering really what an addict i still am!
been watching this site a long time and never spoken up. this place rocks!
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Liked it a lot...very moving. Typical Joss goodness.
My only beef is that in the letters section they printed a pro-government rant from a fan...I mean, he's shocked that Joss (or any storyteller) would have a giant bureaurocracy (like the U.S. Government) doing bad things...?
But still, I'm lovin' it (tm)
Page-turnin' Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
My only beef is that in the letters section they printed a pro-government rant from a fan...I mean, he's shocked that Joss (or any storyteller) would have a giant bureaurocracy (like the U.S. Government) doing bad things...?
I think that's called "equal time".
It's a concept liberals are all in favor of, as long as "equal time" means they get to make their point, and the conservatives get to shut the hell up. 
(That was a joke--please don't anybody write an angry response to it; I'm not getting into a political argument here.)When a lot of the left-leaning fans were jumping up and down after the first issue, rejoicing the idea of the US government as the Big Bad, my feelings were the same as this letter-writer's: Give it a rest already. I don't want politics shoved down my throat in something that's supposed to be ENTERTAINMENT. I watch (and now, read) things like Buffy to get away from that stuff for awhile (for the same reason, I'm not loving the new "Legacy of the Force" Star Wars novels).
Sure, the idea was already done in Buffy with the Initiative in S4, but it's all about HOW it's done. Yes, Chris, the idea of a large bureaucracy having corrupt elements makes sense and is fine, as long as the execution of it is good. The Initiative was done well in that respect. It was generic. It wasn't political in any way. The first issue of S8 was different--it practically screamed "Patriot Act!" That's introducing politics into things, and again, I don't want to read that as entertainment... especially when it's a political viewpoint I don't necessarily agree with.
But as S8 has gone along, it's developed in a way that doesn't bother me. As it's turned out (so far, anyway), this isn't the government going after Buffy and her group of "terrorists". It was ONE high-ranking member of the military abusing his position and power to advance the goals of a secret group (Twilight) that he was a member of. That was my only problem with the letter you mentioned--that even in the second issue, I thought this revelation about General Voll had been made pretty clear, so to write in and make the complaints this fan did just shows that some of the finer details apparently escaped him as he read through it...
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um - i agree that the letter had its right to be printed but... (and before any big argument breaks on this thread - coz i'll run off then)
just to ask:
do you like battlestar galactica?
did you like angel - especially season 5 and what Gunn did at the conclusion?
what did you make of characters in Buffy like The Mayor - or episodes like Gingerbread?
do you think Buffy 7 reflects ambiguous feelings post 9/11?
Buffy as a whole - and in season 7 it is not subtle - makes great points about female empowerment (Buffy knocks over the original watchers - willow becomes a guardian - the potentials become fufilled etc) as well as having gay characters -
do you see issues such as these as non-political?
I am not questioning or pidgeon-holing your personal ideology - just the idea of simple ENTERTAINMENT... and am genuinely interested not angry/picking a fight - yawn - etc.
stay shiny
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Quote:Let's not get into a political argument here, right?
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
please don't anybody write an angry response to it; I'm not getting into a political argument here.
*In the voice of Sue Storm*
No. Let's!
All Governments suck; they always have. It's always a matter of degree. They get in a man's way, or livelyhood, or life. Sometimes they end it, prematurely. Sometimes they attempt to take over a lot- maybe all. A necessary evil, some might say, like the crap in a vaccine; more good than harm is the idea. Like a family with ten children, one usually turns out to be a d**k.
So when peeps weege about Joss' depiction of an evil agent in ANY government, they're just dripping with denial; NO big entity is without it's corruption. So EFF that unilateral DIRTBAG and his blind following of his white-hat-wearing do-almost-nothing-wrong mentality, and LET HIM EAT CAKE!!!!
Did I sound all righteous there?
Actually, I agree, Groos. Politics should be hidden in the subtext, like in Serenity. The 'Patriot Act' allusions came too close for entertainment value for me, too.
Just sayin' Chrisisall
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Wytchcroft, I'm not blind to the fact that politics are at work in all Joss's shows/movies/comics. I also know full-well what those politics are, and that they don't mesh very well with my own (in most cases, anyway; I'm all for female empowerment, and have zero problem with homosexuality, for example). But what I appreciate about him is that, for the most part, he keeps the politics subtle enough in his fiction that if you don't necessarily agree with all of it--like me--it's not hard to ignore and just enjoy the story.
"Buffy" and "Angel" have always been at their best when the real-life metaphor was well-hidden. An episode like "Beauty and the Beasts", or the Willow's-magick-addiction storyline, were poorly-done because the point they're trying to get across is so in-your-face and obvious. It's impossible to ignore.
To me, a writer injecting their politics into their show/movie/novel, whether it's done seriously, or even as a joke (Cordelia: "I know who's President, and that I sorta wish I didn't") is something that smacks of arrogance. Yeah, the people who agree with that viewpoint are gonna sit there and say, "Right on!", but the people who disagree with it are just gonna get annoyed. But nobody's going to be convinced enough to change their opinion on an issue by watching "Buffy", "Star Trek", or "Star Wars", so what's the point? The left-wingers are going to resent being preached to by the right-wingers, and vice versa. And last time I checked, there was a fairly-even split among those two groups in this country, so in doing that, all you're doing is taking a pretty good chance of p***ing off half your audience.
Like Chris said in his last post, make everybody happy by leaving the politics as deeply-buried in the subtext as possible, and let's all just be entertained for a couple of hours before the 11:00 news comes on and we're dragged kicking and screaming back to real-life... 
(Oh, and I've never watched "Battlestar Galactica", so I have no idea what message they may or may not be trying to get across.)
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just a quick reply - please don't misunderstand - i'm all for an inclusive entertaining show -
(us firefly fans NEED 'em!)
NO/ONE likes to get preached at sure.
in my fic work i'm aware that when i touch on issues there's a risk of alienating people - so you make a choice. e.g. a very unsubtle katrina reference in my fic that was posted on the anniversary - i guess you just go on what you feel passionate about.
the trick is (and this is why JOSS etc are so good) to get people to THINK about 'issues' not TELL people (what to think) about issues.
people get defensive but THINKING is good - i need to have my ego/prejudices/politics/identity stretched and tested... but again, you're right - stretched and tested is NOT preached at or derrided.
but eventually - y'know - you make a stand...
and i demand some intelligence in things - i would hate to have any creative artist forced to 'bury' (your words) edgy issues or politics or wotever, in the subtext (ie - where it can be ignored).
for the sake of entertaining the masses.
Quote:
make everybody happy by leaving the politics as deeply-buried in the subtext as possible, and let's all just be entertained for a couple of hours before the 11:00 news
i ask for more than that. Fox don't.
let me restate finally and importantly that i have no opinion about you or your politics nor do i have some fixed opinion that only one side of anything should have a voice. Good vs evil, for us / against us - Left side / right side etc - that's a load of simplistic baloney to me. i LOVE the fact that this sites holds a massive diversity of people, ages, backgrounds, race, gender and national background. i ever meet you at a con... you really think i'm gonna care about your politics??? nope - just that you love firefly!
stay shiny.
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I understand what you're saying. And in some circumstances, I might even agree with you. If there's a subject that the creator feels is important to the story he/she is telling (ie, not just gratuitous politicking for their latest pet cause), and that hasn't been beaten to death already, then maybe a case can be made for it. But that last caveat is key: "not beaten to death already." That was my initial concern about S8 (and the concern of the letter-writer in issue #5 that Chris cited): I don't want or need more bashing of the Bush administration in my fiction. It's been done already. A lot. Find a new theme. Fortunately, that's apparently not the direction Joss is going in with this story, or else he might've lost me fairly quickly.
I don't want my entertainment to be dumbed-down by any means (and I know you never used that phrase), but I also want to be entertained by it, first and foremost. Jokes like the Cordelia line I referenced, among others ("Oh, look: the Americans are relying on violence to solve their problems; what a surprise") are completely unnecessary, and only serve to aggravate the 50% or so of the viewership that doesn't happen to share those beliefs.
Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
let me restate finally and importantly that i have no opinion about you or your politics nor do i have some fixed opinion that only one side of anything should have a voice. Good vs evil, for us / against us - Left side / right side etc - that's a load of simplistic baloney to me. i LOVE the fact that this sites holds a massive diversity of people, ages, backgrounds, race, gender and national background. i ever meet you at a con... you really think i'm gonna care about your politics??? nope - just that you love firefly!
It's all good.
It's actually an interesting discussion to have, as long as it all stays friendly...
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