Why the Left is so dangerous
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 14:10
VIEWED: 15600
PAGE 14 of 23
Quote:
And I cannot provide clear proof it has.
*Raises hand*
I can.
Can, have, and did.
See Thread: More Lies and Alibis.
The FBI flatly lied, repeatedly, as an excuse to steal personal info for unapproved data-mining programs unrelated to national security.
Abuses of this nature are like roaches, for every one you see, there's many more you don't cause they just hide it behind various levels of classification - and we find out 10-29 years later.
Such powers are ALWAYS abused, it's just human nature, is what it is.
-F
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Frem,
Thanks for posting that.
Quote:An additional reference from Frem's...
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
... The Patriot act and other 'goodies' are clearly a legacy of the Right.
So, how about we toss the extremists of both parties out on their butts, fix the damage; and find a way to preserve our rights while protecting the country.
RFK Jr calls for the 'treating' of legitimate businesses as if they had committed treason. And the Patriot Act ? I fail to see the danger here. When I was younger, and heard arguments about how the Gov't had the 'right' to search property for illegal drugs, like one's car, even with out probable cause, I was indifferent. " If you've got nothing to hide, why are you afraid of what they might find. And if you're afraid, then maybe you're hiding something...." Of course, I later grew up and took courses in Constitutional law, and it dawned on me that we, as individuals have rights, and it's the Gov'ts job to PROTECT those rights, not trample on them.
So, to be honest, I'm at a cross roads. On the surface, I see nothing wrong w/ the Patriot Act. All the fears which folks claim 'COULD' happen, aren't. I don't see any rash of people's rights being violated, either by legitimate or false reasons. When the issue of terrorism is brought up, I recall the old line, " If you've got nothing to hide, why worry ? ", which of course brings me to a pause. ISthe 'war on terror' nothing more than a reved up version of the failed and pointless 'war on drugs' ? Then I think of 9/11. I watch a documentary or what ever, and remember what it was like on that day. Sure, there's the possibility that the P.A. could be used and abused.....but as of yet, I'm not convinced it has.
Eyes wide open.
http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2007_07.php#005351
I take EFF pretty seriously, and as a consequence support it regularly. Based on the information they present, I'm confident we have some abuse going on here.
I'll say it again, I believe the PA needs to either be reworked or tossed; and I lean toward tossed.
Edit: ---added:
You point out that RFK Jr. is 'calling for'; ok, I've already indicated he's lost a few wheels. What more you do you want? And so far it's 'just talk'. If the left actually starts to act on it, actually gets laws passed or prosecutions, heck even investigations, started I'll be behind you yelling for it to stop. So far it is just talk. So let's make fun of RJK Jr. while not necessarily tarring the whole 'left' with the same brush.
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Quote:In some people's minds there is no such thing as a loyal opposition. You're either loyal or opposed. I have no idea how that mind-set came to be, but I find that mind-set more dangerous than any specific goal or idea.
I think in the end this debate is skating around the real issue -- what is the role of a loyal opposition in a time of national crisis?
---------------------------------
Republicanisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:In some people's minds there is no such thing as a loyal opposition. You're either loyal or opposed. I have no idea how that mind-set came to be, but I find that mind-set more dangerous than any specific goal or idea.
I think in the end this debate is skating around the real issue -- what is the role of a loyal opposition in a time of national crisis?
---------------------------------
Republicanisall
Loyal to the country or the crown (depending on where you are.) The statement recognises intrinsically that the government is not the country and that opposing the government is not opposing the nation or an act of treason.
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Quote:....and looking at your own little corner.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Eyes wide open.
It's a nice place, isn't it?
So comfy and safe.
You crack me up, AU.
Chrisisall, constantly scanning with eyes wide open, looking for that which he might be (and at times is) missing.....
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Quote:Finn, this is the only 'dumb' thing I think you've ever posted (as opposed to AU, where it's like, wow, another dumb post*sigh*
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
A person can believe that American success hinges on not going to war with Iraq, but once involved in such a war, a patriotic person does not wish for an American defeat to validify their political positions.
).When something bad happens in Iraq, most of us are going "See? I told you this would happen, can we get out now before it gets worse??"
No cheering or high-fives. Sorrow mostly.
Of course there's always gonna be the ocassional smirking git that's into it for self-gratification, just as there will be on the uber-patriotic side if there's a win, but that's not most folk. We love our country we support our troops, and we recognize a mistake when we see it. That's all.
Pardon me if I say that IMO the sentance I quoted of yours smells of hogwash.
...what exactly IS hogwash, btw? Like, soap...but full of dirt or something...?
Digressing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
...If you've got nothing to hide, why worry ? ", which of course brings me to a pause. ISthe 'war on terror' nothing more than a reved up version of the failed and pointless 'war on drugs' ? Then I think of 9/11. I watch a documentary or what ever, and remember what it was like on that day.
I think this is the key point that makes me so much more pessimistic about the future of freedom. If our convictions are so fragile, if all it takes is a surprise attack from an enemy to nullify our determination to remain free, then we've already lost. Seriously, even if we manage to turn things around, all it will take is another attack to re-light the fear and panic that drives us to discard our principles. That fragility of spirit is what I call the opposite of patriotism.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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I think Finn is actually talking about consequences of actions.
Invading Iraq had consequences, many of which were not foreseen before we started. Likewise pulling out will also have consequences both politically at home and internationally, some of which we don't foresee. I think some people look at the war and the idea of pulling out from only a domestic political context while others look at the bigger picture. I think Finn is saying that pulling out for purely domestic political reasons and failing to consider the wider consequences has as much chance of "blowback" as the invasion did.
Don't really know how you deal with the issue but this is a standard "doomed if you do, doomed if you don't" scenario.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
I think this is the key point that makes me so much more pessimistic about the future of freedom. If our convictions are so fragile, if all it takes is a surprise attack from an enemy to nullify our determination to remain free, then we've already lost. Seriously, even if we manage to turn things around, all it will take is another attack to re-light the fear and panic that drives us to discard our principles. That fragility of spirit is what I call the opposite of patriotism.
SergeantX
That won't happen though, the fear will be less next time, the reaction less pronounced. If one massive attack is all it takes to panic a populous Britain would have fallen after the first night of the Blitz. The American public were too comfortable, too secure, their ability to deal with an uncertain world had been weakened though none use. It's like a patient with an immune system that has been compromised, first germ that attacks can almost prove fatal to that society. However, if it survives, it gets stronger for next time.
People already question some of the missuses of Patriot and that would continue even if there was another attack.
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Quote:That's a valid point...but blowback will happen regardless, should we not save as many of our troop as we can NOW, if only to be at a better strength to deal with it later?
Originally posted by Fletch2:
I think Finn is saying that pulling out for purely domestic political reasons and failing to consider the wider consequences has as much chance of "blowback" as the invasion did.
It would be so cool to wake up tomorrow and find out that the war was over, and a stable Iraqi government and army were in place....the government is on vacation for August, btw- don't seem as they really want to deal with any of it.
Douchebags.
I have no real hope...
The last angry Chrisisall
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