River vs Love?

POSTED BY: OrangeHat
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 17:16
VIEWED: 22673
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ROMANCEGURU

Sunday, July 8, 2007 3:33 AM

*Long sigh* I really should not try to argue this because I’ve found that different people see and are open to different things, and that’s fine. I appreciate that your reasons for not seeing the pairing is based on personality confliction and not the tired age difference argument.

I think people who enjoy Rayne see the “why nots” and use those obstacle barriers as an exciting challenge to overcome in their fiction. There are plenty of ways Jayne and River do fit (both killers, loners, probably never had a real relationship or been in love, socially inept…) and the ways in which they do not, make the story that much more realistic and interesting. If we were all carbon copies of one another, how boring would that be? I think that’s why Joss likes to pair individuals who have different backgrounds, ideals and personalities.

I agree that the best and most convincing Rayne stories are the ones that leave the characters intact. For example, Jayne will always be rude and crude, violent ect… and River will probably always have moments of regression and do and say abnormal things.

I got the feeling from the series/movie that while Jayne may be pretty set in his ways, he wasn’t done growing as a person. He had finally met these people who were showing him that family, loyalty and doing the “right” thing, are things worth while. Just because we’re adults, doesn’t mean we don’t continue grow and learn from life until the day we die.

As for, “there is nothing to form a bond” I imagine living with someone day in and day out, fighting and working together, sharing meals and loss, would do the trick. There might even be some more lighthearted scenarios/situations for them to enjoy together.

Quote:
I see no reason for him to go heads over heals for her. (Nor do I think such a play would occur between ANY character in Firefly. It's not that type of 'verse. Closer to "real life".)

See, I don’t get that. Are you saying that people don’t fall heal over heels in RL? Was Kaylee not totally ga-ga over Simon throughout the whole season? Did Mal and Inara not suppress their feelings and angst over one another? I swear Zoe and Wash were madly in love, but then again, I might have been imagining it.

Jayne’s falling for someone might be an entirely different ride, but falling in love happens. It could happen to Jayne. We see him being quite mushy with Helen, brushing her hair, cuddling in bed, teaching her about guns ect… And he’s sweet about his mother. This all seems a contradiction to his normal gruff and insensitive guise. Because of this, Jayne acting in a way that seems incongruous, (like acting moony over a girl) actually works.

River’s more difficult to predetermine because we only had a small glimpse into her personality, and what we do see is not your average girl. That’s why I can’t see River with your average teenage boy. I can see her doing something more ‘off the wall’ like going and falling for the rogue mercenary because ‘left field’ feels much more consistent to her character and akin to the ‘verse.

Believe me, I can understand the not seeing it. I didn’t even consider Jayne/River until someone pointed me in the direction of a great Rayne fic. I think it would be hard to understand the fictional interpretation if you've never given it a try. But then again, some people who are completely closed off to an idea, will most likely never give it a fair fighting chance.

*************************************************
“Don’t belong. Dangerous, like you.”

NBZ

Sunday, July 8, 2007 6:28 PM

heh, thanks for not jumping on me. :)

I had a longer reply but for some reason it did not go through. So, here is a shorter one because I think you "deserve" one.

I think you have given a good answer. "Why not?" is not how I think. Maybe that also explains why I dislike other stories written by the same authors... (a time or two I have predicted an author to eventually go down that line...)

I have given Rayne a chance in the past, but well... I cannot stand it. And some were good authors with a massive story (Kaynara).

I still disagree with your characterisation (both killers, loners, probably never had a real relationship or been in love, socially inept…), but well.. each to their own.

STEAMER

Sunday, July 8, 2007 9:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
I have a daughter with Asparger's Syndrome (high end autistm with normal to high intelligence that mainly manifests itself as low social skills) so I may have a small bit of insight into River.

I think that River, feeling everything, would have lots of problems once she's sane enough for the hormones to kick in. First. she'd be incapable of forming a traditional relationship for a long, long time. She's basically an infant in the relationship department.

It's interesting you should bring up those factors, because I also have Asperger's and a micron of the relationship experience a body ought to have at my age.

But that's why I suggested, much much earlier in the thread, that River might be able to hit it off with someone whom she knows is similar to her. Being a reader, she would recognise someone who understands that she's a bit different and that she's been shunned from almost all sides because of it. Of course it's a two-way contact, and it's still out in the black whether she could understand such an individual in return, but someone with the right personality and at least a slight understanding of River's condition? Especially an understanding that he might take upon himself to deepen? That's my 'why not'.

I'll leave off here because I'm tired of getting caught in the Rayne and just mentioning it makes me sick anyway. Keep flyin'.

Serenity has
Grace and class
She also has
A shiny....engine.
FIREFLY

Captain of the New England Browncoats

ATHENON

Sunday, July 8, 2007 10:16 PM

I agree and disagree. I would like to see her at least show an interest in love. However, there is nobody on Serenity even remotely right for her. Also, she may be mentally unstable...but she has demonstrated her intelligence, cunning, has even demonstrated (fake?) mental stability.

Whether or not River is mentally stable enough for a relationship can go either way. Sometimes, she is...other times, she's not. I can name several scenes which support both sides.

Upon further thought and analysis, however, one may realize that: yes, she is mentally stable sometimes, and other times not...but a relationship is supposed to be a long-term thing. As such, I think it is possible, but it will likely be initiated by someone else AND probably during a period of saneness. Let's face it - it's possible to love someone (romantically!) if they're mentally unstable. River is capable of loving them back too, I think...at least during periods of saneness.

Of course, the mental thing WILL throw a monkey wrench into things - there is _no doubt whatsoever_ about that. However, I think if it was the right guy for her, and she was the right girl for him...they could possibly make it work.

Now, as for "Alright, it's possible...is it likely?" the short answer here is "NO!". It takes an extremely strong (mentally) person to be able to love someone like River (long-term that is). While these types of people exist, no doubt...they also have to be compatible with her. How many of these people exist? Like...5?

In short...I would like to see River obtain a love interest, and it is possible. It is, however, extremely unlikely that anything like that will happen - but still possible.

--
Athenon

"My food is problematic"

BLINDOUTLAW

Tuesday, July 10, 2007 5:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Athenon:
How many of these people exist? Like...5?

That is the great thing about a Joss Whedon verse, no matter how unlikely it is that the one person needed exists, they always show up

And also being a Joss Whedon story i think the completely wrong person would be used on several occations, because when it come to relationships, Joss loves to step on them i mean look at Zoe and Wash, so sad

So maybe the wrong guy can be used

or Mr Right

but i the end someone is going to be really hurt. Unless it is true love, in which one of them dies. Hopefully not River

----------------
That was when i found out my pants were on fire, and that's my Courageous story.

[url] http://www.myspace.com/blindoutlaw [/url]

- Jimmy the Blindoutlaw

WYTCHCROFT

Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:19 AM

I found this to be a very interesting thread... in fact it was one of two threads that directly made me go and write SOLACE for the site.

so again, this site kicks ass, you all rule!

time is the bottle from which we drink the liquor of our lives.

MOBBEX

Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:55 PM

Quote:
...in fact it was one of two threads that directly made me go and write SOLACE for the site.

Realy? What's the other one

?

Everything in here gleams...

WYTCHCROFT

Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:55 PM

hi, the other thread that sparked SOLACE was 'Serenity's Sisters' i had some thoughts but the thread pushed me in a whole new direction.

ALL my fics here have been directly inspired by this site (either posts, messages or blogs)! Check out threads such as 'What's up with Inara', and 'Book'. Currently i am spinning from the shiny that is 'Alliance - destruction or downfall' which, like this thread, is long and very very interesting.

keep running from them Reavers!

make somebody a browncoat today - don't drive no/one away

RIVERFLAN

Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lexan:
I agree that River does have a personality... and a very interesting personality at that. I just don't think this personality is being communicated through River’s own experiences and inclinations. Her personality sort of forces its way through what she says and implies, which is mostly about other people and issues that have nothing to do with her ( apart from the fact she knows about them). I would have liked to see her explain and understand herself more. River’s likes, dislikes, leanings, opinions and belief were always somewhat indistinct. She never once (unless I’m wrong?) said a sentence that started with ‘I feel’ or ‘I believe’ which addressed particular subject matters…

About River’s tricking Badger in Shindig… she wasn’t endangering the crew at all. You’ll notice that, at the very moment Jayne says ‘What we need is a diversion’ River appears instantaneously. So I think she was really trying to do them a favour…

When she slashed Jayne with the knife in Ariel, I believe it was because she wanted to both communicate to the crew about blue sun (which for some reason she can’t coherently) and indicate what Jayne was planning on doing (assuming Jayne was already thinking of selling Simon and River to the feds)…

I think you've got it down perfectly. What I can add is that I don't think River will get into a relationship. There's enough romance/sexuality being done today to make it into the norm, and we all know Joss isn't about trying to be normal.

Also, about that deleted scene w/ Saffron, I think it might be because she want to give something to Simon as thanks for saving her, and gets the idea from Saffron (who is very relaxed about marrying people, as you can tell). That's just a guess, though, and it's probably wrong.

River: "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vaccuuming systems."

EMMAZULE

Monday, August 27, 2007 8:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Yeah, so I don't think she was just playing or being ironic in that CSI scene with Simon. She really is that disconnected.

*snerk!* I'm sorry, I just don't see it. I thought the same at first, I was like "What the hell!?"... but then she pulled that stunt with the pillow: "We have to get married now. I'm in the family way." cue waaaaay too "innocent", coy look. She's totally pulling one over on him, teasing him, flustering him on purpose because she thinks it's funny (which, of course, it is because Simon's not quite quick enough on the uptake to realize she's teasing him).

It's not the first time we've seen her put on over on someone - "Also, I can kill you with my brain", remember? Or the way she treated Badger, even, to a lesser extent. Hell, even the "I'm not in the ship. I am the ship" thing she pulled on Early. How can you forget the way she giggled when Early finally figured it out and then teased him about all the "interesting" things in his ship? Not to mention the whole "Jayne is a girl's name" jab.

She does have a sense of humor, folks, and she's often seen using it to poke fun or play jokes on people. Not as often as the crazy-rants, obviously, but it does happen (though come to think about it, except for Simon, I can't think of any cases where she did this to someone she likes... but then again, Simon does say about her that "She could be such a brat, too...", which sort of implied to me that she occasionally does tease him, not all that surprising given that they're siblings).

Now, the scene in Safe where she doesn't seem to realize Simon's being kidnapped, that's a different story. She seems very out of it there. Actually, through most of that episode, really. Seems to have no idea what's weird about being able to read Ruby's mind, seems to have no idea how much trouble she's asking for when she brings up how the whatchamallit, Patron? of the town basically made sure the last one died so he could have the post, and she seems confused and terrified when she's being burned at the stake because of those things. Safe was apparently not a depiction of one of her better days. :P

In Our Mrs. Reynolds, though, she seems fairly lucid, what little we get to see of her - she even calls YoSaffBridge a thief, remember? ;) (Of course, no one realizes what she really means by this, heh)

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