We're celebrating what, again ?
POSTED BY: Fremdfirma
UPDATED: Thursday, January 9, 2025 00:43
VIEWED: 10349
PAGE 9 of 13
Quote:No. I didn't imply anything. What I said was that a particular paragraph written by Frem was pure anti-Americanism. (Whether that interpretation was Frem’s intent, I can’t say, but certainly it was a valid interpretation.) What Serg thinks this has to do with him hating America, one can only wonder. Perhaps he was just speaking rhetorically.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Well then, you implied is stongly...
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:Except that I never said such a thing.
Originally posted by SergeantX:
You know Finn. I get real touchy about people telling me I hate America. So just don't do it, m'kay?
"It is pure anti-Americanism, hatred of America."
Wouldn't ya say?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Anticipatory pre-emptive strike?
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
What Serg thinks this has to do with him hating America, one can only wonder. Perhaps he was just speaking rhetorically.
Looking back, yeah, you weren't talking to or about him with that.
Chrisisall
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Quote:Nah, he has a point of view- that this system works- on most levels at least.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Finn, don't you ever wonder why so many independent-minded folk thing you're a boot-licker?
Some view American Government as in need of a tune-up, other think it needs a major overhaul.
I'd save 'boot-licker' for Hero and AU
The early bird gets to post Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Actually I define it by the level of corruption, the erosion of freedoms, and the condoned illegal activities perpetrated in the name of National Security that bring shame to America.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I don’t define oppression by the government as being one person not getting their way.
This is a road I don't want my country on, and one, that in the past- for certain other countries, has led to all manner of unpeasantness.
And how different would things be if two airplanes hadn't flown into the World Trade Centre towers? Perhaps the present administration went overboard with the terrorist threat but something had to be done. Would everyone be happy if after the attacks Bush simply stated that we shall do nothing because we are free and liberty comes before life? What if there have been no further terror attacks on American soil because of the measures taken by this administration? What if Iraq was a preemptive strike (not when it was struck but who knows down the road)? Will the 'war on terror' ever end so the patriot act can be shelved? Will it be shelved by the next president regardless? Have there been other times in America's history where the future looked grim to some before the ship righted itself?
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Quote:Bush n' Cheney would be doing their Pinky and the Brain schemes to try and grab the power that Bin Laden served them on that silver platter.
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
And how different would things be if two airplanes hadn't flown into the World Trade Centre towers?
Quote:No.
Would everyone be happy if after the attacks Bush simply stated that we shall do nothing because we are free and liberty comes before life?
Quote:They (terrorists) mostly shot their wad with 911, I suspect.
What if there have been no further terror attacks on American soil because of the measures taken by this administration?
Quote:It wasn't, so we needn't discuss that point.
What if Iraq was a preemptive strike (not when it was struck but who knows down the road)?
Quote:Bureaucrats give up power...are you mad?
Will the 'war on terror' ever end so the patriot act can be shelved?
Quote:One can hope...
Will it be shelved by the next president regardless?
Quote:Yes, and I'm hoping our darkest days are almost behind us.
Have there been other times in America's history where the future looked grim to some before the ship righted itself?
Itemized Chrisisall
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What if we didn't overthrow a democratically elected leader and replace him with a brutal dictator back in 1953 ?
Full Circle - you DO shit, other shit follows, it's called cause and effect, and some day down the road, future generations will curse at US for the blowback from invading Iraq, just as imma cussin the bastards who propped up the Shah.
Is that any kinda legacy to leave our youth ?
No wonder they hate us so, not only watching us crush their freedoms before they even experience them, but many of them are indeed smart enough to know how badly our current international idiocy is going to blow back on them down the road.
As for hope, Chris - I am of the mind that Ford made a dire mistake in pardoning Tricky Dick, and that we should have cleaned house and shut down these totally *ruinous* mad dog alphabet agencies then, or it would not have come to this... and that leads us to the decision point we're soon to be at here.
Impeach em, not just Bush and Cheney, but a full-on purge, clean house of the whole little cabal, Kristol, Rove, Wolfie, Scooter and every single damned one of the madmen who got us into this, lock em up and pitch the keys into the sagebrush so their lingering influance a'al Kissinger won't keep coming BACK to haunt us over and over again.
Believe me, there's plenty and plenty of evidence for prosecutin em, RICO for starters, as what they've done most certainly constitutes a criminal conspiracy and subversion of our system of government for personal and idealogical gain without regard to the consequences, and in Scooters case this isn't exactly the first time he's played it fast and loose with classified info.
And enough with the damned gestapos already, DHS, TSA, CIA, NSA - all they've ever accomplished is contributing to the destruction of the society they're supposed to be protecting, we cannot win against dictators and madmen by BECOMING them, but rather refusing not only to bow to them, but also refusing to sacrifice what we are because of their actions, you don't break a siege by burning down your own castle, which is what we've mostly done in the past ten years or so.
Drag these jackboot goons out in public and put em on the stand like Church and Pike did (See Also: Church Commission) and let em have it, throw the ones who've really stepped over the line in prison with the rest of those mentioned above, and clean house, then slash the budgets, break their charters and be done with the whole misery.
Will some apologists scream "witch hunt" ?
Sure.
Will there probably be some personal agendas and partisan bickering ?
The nature of the thing assures it, alas.
BUT IT *MUST* BE DONE!
It's like bugbombing for roaches, you either put up with the temporary fallout, stink, and cleanup, or you put up with the roaches forevermore.
None of this pardon shit neither, Ford totally fucked it up by not cleaning house when he had the chance and the american people damn well wanted it cleaned - as they do now.
We cannot waste this second chance, cause we might not get another, we need to not only impeach tweedledumb and tweedledumber, we need to go right on down the list and sink the lot of em, no sweetheart deals, no pardons, no probation, no club fed - hard time in the pen for the lot of em.
Look at the list already, Abramoff, Ney, Foley, on and on it goes, a culture of corruption on BOTH sides of the political fence (That jackass who took the $100,000 bribe too) that's been allowed to fester so very long that at the bottom of it, it gets so damn sick and woo-woo *strange* that it's almost beyond belief, I don't even wanna think about where it'd go from there if unchecked for another decade.
So purge em, and do it now while the complete rampant arrogance of the current administration has pissed off enough joe sixpacks to support it, get the pitchforks and torches and go to town on them while we've got some chance, and some hope to do so - their own actions have stuck their necks out this time, and as stated in the beginning of this thread, it is out
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Quote:Al Qaeda just hated the WTC. It obstructed their view of Venus. But after they got rid of that, they were cool.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
They (terrorists) mostly shot their wad with 911, I suspect.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Re: Twin Towers.
What we *shoulda* done is respond like AMERICANS, put the damned things BACK up, downright immediately with all hands on the job, as a spit in the face of those who even dare to THINK we can be frightened or defeated in such a fashion.
All we got now is a big hole in the ground and a political sop instead.
I'm also of the mind that all american flagpoles oughta have an extra two feet on em, painted bright silver, and when the enemies of liberty or our nation attempt to cow or threaten us, we should raise old glory HIGHER, in pure american defiance of tyranny - but that's not the course we've taken.
I am NOT afraid of terrorists, to be so is to hand them victory without even a fight.
-F
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Quote:[sarcasm]Why even bring this up, Frem? Do you expect us to learn from our mistakes? You must be mad.[/sarcasm]
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
What if we didn't overthrow a democratically elected leader and replace him with a brutal dictator back in 1953 ?
Quote:I'm for that.
Impeach em, not just Bush and Cheney, but a full-on purge, clean house of the whole little cabal, Kristol, Rove, Wolfie, Scooter and every single damned one of the madmen who got us into this
Definitely. Chrisisall
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Quote:Whackin' Al-Queda in Afghanistan was good, but why not round them up and make the prisoners work on a rebuild-chain-gang?
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Re: Twin Towers.
What we *shoulda* done is respond like AMERICANS, put the damned things BACK up, downright immediately with all hands on the job, as a spit in the face of those who even dare to THINK we can be frightened or defeated in such a fashion.
Make 'em useful.
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