Ron Paul - Help Wanted
POSTED BY: SevenPercent
UPDATED: Friday, August 31, 2007 20:14
VIEWED: 12322
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Help me out here, someone.
Now, I've seen Ron Paul on a few shows now, and I've kind of liked what the man had to say. I'm still a little unsure, given some things I've heard (not to mention the least of which is he's from Texas, the state that gave us Bush, Waco, and a McDonald's served counter of death sentences), but nothing too serious on that front.
But part of the reason I'm unsure is because of who on this board supports him. The "Ron Paul Quotes" thread really made me nervous. The only people coming out in favor of the guy were three of the biggest loons on this board: PN, Kaneman, and Antimason. Frankly, I think one's nuts, one's a trolling douchebag, and one's an idiot (place those tags where you think they most apply - even mix-and-match if you'd like).
And they all support Ron Paul.
Is there anyone rational out there who thinks he's a decent guy, and who may have some links I can check out on him? I'd especially like opinions or links from our more conservative folks; Hero (God help me for asking), Finn, and AuR (my disagreements with you may have been legendary, but I respect your opinions), but I'll accept info from anyone.
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I support him Seven. Can I be on your 'loon list'? :)
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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I don't know if you think I'm rational but here goes, I think he's a decent choice who has the right idea but maybe takes things too far. However his more radical ideas probably wouldn't get past Congress so I'm not worried about that too much. All in all I wouldn't feel bad about voting for him but I don't know if hes going to be the best choice yet (and I won't until it's down to the final two) but I certainly don't think he'll be a bad choice given the people who we already know are going to be running.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Can I be on your 'loon list'? :)
No. You can't be on the loon list. Sorry Sarge, but I have to put my foot down on this one.
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There's a wikipedia entry (no idea how biased it is)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_paul
reads a little too much like campaign literature for me to be sure it is not biased (on the flip side, it's at least -good- campaign literature).
Its too early to say I'm 'for' him; been a life long democrat when it comes to presidential vote casting; but I must admit he'd tempt me. The main thing I'd like to see is exactly what he wants to cut. I probably have too much bias toward some form of universal health care to end up voting for him; but put the wrong democrat up against him, I could see voting for him.
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Okay Seven. I think I'm somewhat qualified to answer your questions. I've not followed Ron Paul's career especially closely, but I've been in and out of the Libertarian party for years. And that's the first thing you need to understand about Ron Paul. He's a Libertarian in Republican clothing.
I think that's great, but it's likely to present some scary issues to many folks. In the interest of full disclosure, I'll hit on all the scary stuff that'll possibly make him unelectable in the end.
Libertarians believe in minimal government. They mean it. Ulitimately they'd pare government down to the bare essentials (defense and basic laws preventing violence and theft). What the bare essentials are is debatable, and not even all Libertarians agree where that line should be drawn, but they hope to push the pendulum a good distance in the other direction.
In short, they believe the government has no business interfering with anyone unless they are harming or threatening another. This simple notion is applied to pretty much every political issue a Libertarian considers. They are against 'victimless' crimes and most regulation. They're against drug laws and laws pertaining to consensual sex.
These issues will be used by Democrats and Republicans to scare middling voters away. Scaring people has proven a very effective, and spectacularly easy, way to manipulate the American public. You can bet they'll turn it up to eleven if push comes to shove.
I've read and thought a fair amount about politics and libertarianism, to me, is by far the sanest and most rational of the various philosophies of government. It's not perfect, but it's not nearly as scary as they'd have people believe. Democrats will try to convince you that we're cold-hearted social Darwinists, and Republicans will tell you we're hedonists. Neither of those is the case.
Lastly, while libertarianism is remarkably consistent as a political philosophy, there are a few issues that don't fit nicely into the basic framework. One of those issues, abortion, happens to be where I disagree with Dr. Paul (actually a majority of the Libertarian party does as well, but there is a sizable pro-life contingent).
His views on abortion are roughly thus: He believes it is wrong - it's initiation of force against a person (unborn). But he doesn't think think it should be a federal issue - only states have the right to pass such laws.
I disagree with him fairly strongly on this. In my opinion, aborting may be, in the strictest sense 'murder'. But in this case, the cure is worse than the crime. If the only way a law can be enforced is to annex a woman's body, effectively making her public property, then that's a bad law.
But as president he'd actually have very little say on this issue, by his own reckoning of constitutional law. He's specifically against federal mandates to the states and he's made very clear it should never be a federal issue. So I've convinced myself it's a moot point.
Well, those are the scariest positions I can think of. There may be others that seem benign to me, and not so much to your ear, but I can't think of anything else that would cause you grave concern.
EDIT to add: Applied thoroughly and consistently, libertarian ideology implies some pretty radical changes to the make up of our federal government. If they had their druthers, in the long run Libertarians would abolish the IRS and many other government bureaucracies. They'd get rid of the Department of Homeland Security. They'd dismantle perhaps two-thirds of the federal government, eliminating many institutions that most people now see as synonymous with government.
Of course, none of this would ever happen without a massive shift in the public's preferences, regardless of who is elected.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Liberal Playboy Pajama-Party Jew Bill Maher LOVES Ron Paul, as did the ENTIRE audience, who gave Dr Paul a long standing ovation last week:
Quote:
VIDEO: Ron Paul On Real Time With Bill Maher (05/25/07)
VIDEO: Bill Maher stands up for Ron Paul
www.alternet.org/blogs/video/52096/
Jew Ben Afflack also clapped for Dr Paul.
But Dr Paul is pulling his punches re 9/11 (trying to keep the CIA assassins at bay), and Paul wants a criminal investigation into the 9/11 Massacres, which would result in the arrest of Mafia mayor Ghouliani and the Bushes, who led the attack, with zero Muslim "hijackers", just like Pentagon's declassified Operation Northwoods.
www.piratenews.org/911con.html
www.september911surprise.com
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PN, you should reconsider Giuliani. I think he's truly your candidate!
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
"Ron Paul is my new hero. What is so sad to me is this guy is saying truth, and they're treating him as a crazy person."
-Bill Maher
VIDEO: www.alternet.org/blogs/video/52096/
As for the hero worship of Rotton Reagan:
Quote:
"My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing begins in five minutes."
-President Ronald Reagan
When Reagan said that on live TV, my job for Uncle Scam was loading nukes targeted at US troops and allies in Western Europe.
As for Ghouliani Knight of the British Empire:
Quote:
"Mayor Giuliani — a former federal prosecutor who won notice for 'pursuing' the Mafia — had relatives linked to organized crime, including a mobbed-up cousin who was gunned down by FBI agents in 1977, a new book says. Lewis D'Avanzo, a son of the mayor's uncle and a guest at Giuliani's first wedding in 1968, was a 'ruthless and widely feared mob associate' who headed a massive stolen car ring, according to FBI documents and interviews detailed in Rudy! An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, by Village Voice senior editor Wayne Barrett. Due in stores next week, the book sketches a largely unflattering portrait of the clan, depicting his father, Harold, as a hothead and the "muscle" behind a brother-in-law's loansharking operation, run out of a Brooklyn bar. Along with cracking heads, it says the mayor's father served time in state prison for a stickup, rarely held an on-the-books job and once was a gunman in a mob shootout in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn. According to the book, Giuliani's cousin Lewis D'Avanzo was known as "Steve the Blond" and listed as armed and dangerous in FBI bulletins. His criminal record included a 10-year federal sentence for the armed hijacking of a truck loaded with $240,000 worth of mercury. The book alleges that he was suspected of taking part in several murders. D'Avanzo was gunned down by the FBI in October 1977, when he tried to run down an agent after being stopped on a warrant that accused him and two associates of transporting 100 stolen luxury cars. Quoting an unnamed friend of D'Avanzo, the book describes a 1962 shootout pitting a local mobster against the mayor's father and Leo D'Avanzo, Lewis D'Avanzo's father. The book says Leo was later sanctioned by mob bosses for shooting at a Mafia member. Leo D'Avanzo, who was known in family circles as a black sheep, ran loansharking and gambling operations out of a Brooklyn bar where Giuliani's father worked as a bartender. In his role as debt collector, his father 'broke legs, smashed kneecaps, crunched noses.' Joan Ellen D'Avanzo, a cousin who at one time lived with Giuliani when he was a youngster, became a drug addict who was beaten to death in 1973 at age 34. Her cause of death was listed as undetermined, but several family members said she was murdered."
—Michael R. Blood, New York Daily News, "Rudy's Kin Tied to Mob", July 06, 2000
"The father he celebrated so often was a pathological predator. His extended family harbored a junkie, a crooked cop and a murky mob wing. He dissolved his first marriage with a lie so he could appear Catholic when he remarried. The very personal jewelry his first wife found in her bedroom wasn't hers...."
—Wayne Barrett, Rudy!: An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Guiliani, "All in the Family: Crooks, Cops and a Junkie" (co-author of City for Sale)
Donald Trump sucks Rudy's tits
NYC TV News: Ghouliani ambushed by 9/11 Truthers
http://video.wnbc.com/player/?id=112179
Queen Rudy's private company bombed London on 7/7, which is why the German queen of England knighted him. He's also helping the king of Spain annex all highways in Texas, for the www.SPP.gov Trans Texas Corridor for Mexico to Canada, as part of the British Commonwealth.
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