General Discussions

Wash & Book Resurrected: How?

POSTED BY: Fastmover
UPDATED: Saturday, May 26, 2007 11:25
VIEWED: 12854
PAGE 1 of 4

FASTMOVER

Monday, May 21, 2007 4:31 AM

This has probably been discussed a zillion times, but I thought it it would be nice to have all of our ideas in one place for this conundrum because they're all scattered like leaves on the wind throughout the forums. IF, and this is purely for the sake of imagination because I don't want to get any hopes up, they brought back our two slain BDHs, how could it be done?

So far the ones I know are:

1) Flashbacks - the most likely, done similar to OoG.

2) Wash is captured by the Alliance, resuscitated, and used for information - this is highly unlikely, but nothing's impossible.

3) I can think up a couple outlandish ones, but this isn't Star Trek and I wouldn't want them to use these ideas anyway. Cloning them perhaps? Reanimation?

If I ever hear the words "that's final" come out of your mouth again, they truly will be.

PENNAUSAMIKE

Monday, May 21, 2007 12:27 PM

I think most Browncoats are hoping for a sequel.
But that actually opens the can of worms over Wash's death.
I've seen Browncoats anxious to see, in essence, who Joss will kill off next;
and Browncoats who feel that any attempt to continue without Wash and Zoe as the true death of the series.
Joss has said that he doesn't bring back characters when talking about Wash, but he brought back Dobson in the bridging comic story and has talked about bringing Jubal Early back in other interviews.
So I've seen the "Wash Lives!" discussions get pretty lively.

Re: Wash's death in "Serenity". I am simply not willing to accept that in a fictional 'verse. I look to fiction as entertainment. If I want unhappy endings, all I gotta do is wake up! In my mind, until a film or series continuation says different, the crew put Wash in River's cryo-box to take him home for burial. Along the way, they are informed by Simon that the same medical tech that produced Tracy's hopped up internal organs ("million credit meat" in Tracy's words) are accessible at Government reseaerch facilities. Using a bit of improvisation and Book's ident card, they sneak Wash in in place of a politico who bumped a deserving recipient (ala PA's governor Casey who bumped everybody down the list for his transplant). Alliance bashing, witty dialog and some gunplay ensues. The Firefly 'verse returns to normal.

I will miss Book but his death was a more acceptable fit than Wash's.
One: Books death was important to the storyline and character development because Book was the catalyst to Mal regaining a little bit of his "rudder". Book's casual murder by the Operative and his dying wish, nay, DEMAND that Mall "believe" again made Mal and crew confront River's Miranda secret, rather than just run. Wash was sacrificed meaninglessly as a plot gimmick to create peril.

Two: Book was an individual who interacted with the crew but Wash was half of a married couple who as such made up an important ingredient of Firefly's unique-ness. To destroy that couple as a plot device is a cheap shot at all those who reveled in a mature, married couple as part of the cast ensemble. Which ties into,

Three: Book is a more easily replaced character. If another character with deep-seated religious beliefs were to join Serenity, (not a Sheperd but perhaps a person who wouldn't be stereotypically devout, say a blue-collar industrial worker who knows why he trusts in his Christian faith) the conscience-character would not replace Book but add to his legacy.
But if some "guy" just jumped into Zoe's heart and bed, it would be creepy and an insult to both Wash and Zoe.

Four: Also, Book's mysterious past could be explored in flashback, which would keep actor Ron Glass involved in the series without quite the level of sadness that showing widow Zoe's dead husband would cause. Wash is the "funny" character and there is little funny about being reminded of his death.

I have to admit that to many people, "undoing" Wash's death would cheapen it.
Since I feel the death was cheap and frivilous in the first place,
(and we are talking about "entertainment" and "fiction" here)
I want Wash back as a character more than I want to service a
manipulative, low blow.
I admit it, I still mist up at the Bedlam Bards "Leaf On The Wind" song.

CHANNAIN

Monday, May 21, 2007 2:30 PM

Quote:
pennausamike said
I have to admit that to many people, "undoing" Wash's death would cheapen it.

It would. I would be one of the many. And let’s not forget, Alan Tudyk was in support of Wash’s death. He’s been quoted as saying that of the crew of Serenity, his death would create all manner of havoc, and what is Firefly if it doesn’t have a little havoc?

Quote:
FASTMOVER
2) Wash is captured by the Alliance, resuscitated, and used for information - this is highly unlikely, but nothing's impossible.

First, that would be exhumed, reconstructed, and reanimated... used for information? You said it yourself, highly unlikely. Not to mention - resuscitated from a sharpened telephone pole through the chest? Well, okay, in the Firefly day and age of wet-ware smuggling, maybe that could happen... MAYBE.

But as anyone who has ever seen Practical Magic or a magical resurrection on Charmed, one thing is for certain – physically raising someone from the dead never goes well. I believe in the soul, and even if Wash's body got to working again, would Wash really be in there. On the one hand, it would be interesting to see what Alan Tudyk would do with that. On the other hand, it just sounds wrong to me.

Joss uses death as a tool, not as a means of bringing a character back later. Granted, there were rumors that Wesley would have come back had Angel continued, but he didn’t get a pointed telephone pole through the chest either. I fully believe that had Wesley come back, he would have bee a VERY changed man - possibly the new Big Bad - and Joss would have had us hollering “Whatcha do that for?!?”

I will miss Wash as well. And Book - boy will I miss Book. But there is a reason for Joss’s madness. In that, we have to continue to have faith.

Doesn’t mean we can’t still call him names for it from time to time. He might even enjoy it.

Doing the impossible makes us mighty
Minnesota Browncoats
http://www.mnfirefly.com/portal/html/index.php

FASTMOVER

Monday, May 21, 2007 8:49 PM

Good responses! :)

The only other way I could see them doing it is by completely rebooting the series and ignoring either some or all of the events in the film. Personally, I mentally do this on my own every time I watch the series and film, but would not want them to really do it because it would completely strip the entire franchise of all its value.

[IMG][/IMG]

I am evil, I am sly, and if you get eaten no one will cry.

PENNAUSAMIKE

Monday, May 21, 2007 9:13 PM

pennausamike said
I have to admit that to many people, "undoing" Wash's death would cheapen it.

Quote:
It would. I would be one of the many.

OK, I'll be willing to entertain your belief, BUT, you haven't answered any of my concerns/beliefs that Wash's death was a needless cheap shot, that it undermines the core of the Firefly/Serenity character dynamic and that the cost to value of what Firefly/Serenity stands for out weighs the value as a (misguided) plot device.

Joss went on at some length in the Australian Q&A about messing with characters internally vs externally to provide real drama vs contrived drama. I understood his point but I think he went too far. The dynamic has been needlessly shifted from all the things Firefly used to be about (do the job, keep flying, found family) to life without Wash. Mal has no pilot (and making River skilled at Wash's level is a farce of a fiction if ever there was one), Zoe has no husband, Simon has no friend and advocate, Jayne has no light-hearted counter-point and the ship has no smart-assed comic relief. Book's role is replaceable, Wash is NOT.

Quote:
I believe in the soul, and even if Wash's body got to working again, would Wash really be in there. On the one hand, it would be interesting to see what Alan Tudyk would do with that. On the other hand, it just sounds wrong to me.

Because this is a work of fiction, the rules are what the creator makes them. I have no missing soul issues in the Firefly 'verse. Malcolm Reynolds died on Niska's torture table. He was brought back to life. How do you determine when the soul gives up on the body? Also, Wash being saved by Simon adds exciting new dramatic tension for the characters. Zoe would now "owe" loyalty to two people; Mal for saving her and Simon for saving Wash. A viable plot/character development would be her journey to her not owing anybody, which would strengthen her relationship with her husband, Wash. ("What this marriage needs is one less husband") And Mal would have less of a subordinate and more of a partner. And Zoe would be an even stronger female character; but dramatically MADE stronger thru growth, not contrivance.

I LOVE the potential storylines and character development that grow out of Wash being saved. I am disheartened and depressed at the downward spiral that is inevitable if Wash is removed from the Firefly equation.

Joss is a genius, but he isn't perfect.
(Read Serenity: Those Left Behind, ooo....)
To service a short term goal, he wrote himself into a corner by killing Wash, if Wash is truly gone. He took one of the "wheels" off his Firefly "car". The car might limp around on three wheels, but it ain't gonna run RIGHT.

Mike

WHODIED

Monday, May 21, 2007 10:33 PM

Everything in the BDM from "bullet in the brainpan--squish!" is a vision in the mind of River, who then can prevent it going down that way.

Not the most elegant solution but the simplest.

--WhoDied

_______________________

The vision becomes reality. It is done.

CHANNAIN

Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
OK, I'll be willing to entertain your belief, BUT, you haven't answered any of my concerns/beliefs that Wash's death was a needless cheap shot, that it undermines the core of the Firefly/Serenity character dynamic and that the cost to value of what Firefly/Serenity stands for out weighs the value as a (misguided) plot device.

Okay, maybe it was needless and a cheap shot, but it also brought home a very crucial point to everyone in the audience, and everyone on the ship - ANYONE could die at that point. For the tension to be ramped up just that much, there had to be a reason for what they were doing. I wouldn't have gone that route, but Joss did.

Plus, there is no freaking way the crew was going to give up after what Wash did to bring in that landing, and after he got killed for it.

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
I think he went too far.

So do I. That doesn't mean it gets to get undone.

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
(and making River skilled at Wash's level is a farce of a fiction if ever there was one)

How is one simple take off in the rain skilled at Wash's level?

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
Zoe has no husband, Simon has no friend and advocate, Jayne has no light-hearted counter-point and the ship has no smart-assed comic relief. Book's role is replaceable, Wash is NOT.

Never said he was. You wanna put words in my mouth, make sure they're the right ones. And we have no way of knowing if Book's role is replaceable, because we never got to see the true man behind the collar until the moment just before he died, and even then it was only a glimpse.

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
I have no missing soul issues in the Firefly 'verse. Malcolm Reynolds died on Niska's torture table. He was brought back to life.

Mal was brought back within minutes of dying. That's entirely do-able. After a certain length of time, it simply can't be done - right now. In the future? Plus, Mal still had all of his anatomy. Maybe the soul does hang on - it's likely Wash's would have, after the way he went out. But is it truly fair to the character?

Oh good lord. Do you know what happens next? Next comes the "Wash didn't Die" Brigade like the "Richie Ryan didn't die" Brigade for Highlander or "Catherine Lives" fandom for Beauty and the Beast. Think I'm kidding? I bet there's still remnants of the Richie Ryan brigade out there.

That is the one thing I fear the most, because that would really cheapen Wash's AMAZING contribution to this show, and to this 'verse.

Joss has never written himself into a corner that he didn't already know how to get out of.

This story has never been about me and how I feel about it, and what *I* think is right - it's been about ten characters in a big bad universe. Now it's about nine characters in a big bad universe.

If you have to ask me who the tenth character was, I may cry.

Doing the impossible makes us mighty
Minnesota Browncoats
http://www.mnfirefly.com/portal/html/index.php

DUSTMONKEY

Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:12 AM

i would prefer seeing a prequel than a sequel,

there is so much that hasnt been uncoverered between the series and the film (some explained in the comic but still) this means wash and book would both be alive for the time beeing.

PENNAUSAMIKE

Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:03 AM

Quote:
You wanna put words in my mouth, make sure they're the right ones.

SNIP

If you have to ask me who the tenth character was, I may cry.

It was never my intention to put words in your mouth, only to state my own views.

Any fan who doesn't know that Serenity is the tenth character isn't paying attention.
And ya knooooowwwww...
They brought Serenity back from the dead, too.

Just sayin'...

Keep Flyin',
Mike

FASTMOVER

Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:25 AM

Some more weirdness from me. I think it would have been much 'easier' or 'better' in terms of meaning if either Jayne or Inara died. I'll say why.

Inara left Serenity after OIS, and she was never a real player anyway, other than providing that nurturing quality to life on the ship. This is something that Kaylee already offers, and I think much better. Don't get me wrong, she's beautiful and I'd love to be her client anyday, if she'd contract with me, but she was always a bit more out of place for me, even more so than Simon. Sure her and Mal have the tension like Solo and Leia, but other than that she doesn't do very much.

Now if Jayne died, it would have some very important meanings, and I think it would have done the show something. If he had gone down fighting he would have finally found some honor, and this would have completed his character development. After going from a complete sellout mercenary to a somewhat caring individual, his sacrifice would have struck an inner chord with me, especially if they followed it up by taking his body home to his family like they did with Tracy. Then we would see that he is really human after all, and people actually do care for him despite all he has done. It would have really struck Mal, too.

[IMG][/IMG]

I am evil, I am sly, and if you get eaten no one will cry.