1943
POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Monday, June 18, 2007 20:37
VIEWED: 7581
PAGE 4 of 5
Quote:It’s really stupid to compare the Bush Administration to the Nazis, Chris. Nothing you just said makes any sense. You’re whole premise is wrong. The Bush administration does not control the media and they certainly aren’t using the Nazis as an example. The Bush administration can’t even seem to get their own message out in any kind of cogent manner, much less control perception in the country.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The Bush Administration has learned by example. Don't hide what you do, control perception.
Imagine trying to make torture of prisoners legal in the sixties or early seventies- it couldn't have been done. It would have sparked demonstrations-a-plenty, and angered the country.
Now it merely pisses off some human rights groups.
I'm shocked by how plainly Bush & Co have had their way, with such minimal resistance- even now.
In my world, they'd have been in jail by now...but my world is a fantasy one where truth and justice prevail.
Political drive-by Chrisisall
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
It’s really stupid to compare the Bush Administration to the Nazis, Chris.
True, but these days there are people who are willing to take any negative subject and stretch it into an example of why the Bush administration sux. Forget whether you even agree with them on that or not--either way, it's tiring. And tired. Any discussion of the issue turns angry and nasty almost immediately, which is why I try to stay away from it entirely. I'd much rather just come in here and have a nice friendly discussion or debate about something to do with "Buffy" or "Angel", and check the politics at the door.
So, thanks for introducing a political agenda into a completely-unrelated "Buffy" thread, Chris. 50/50 this now turns into "Bush is like Hitler"/"That's an idiotic statement"/"No, it's not"/"Yes, it is"... I don't have the energy, or the blood pressure, to stick around and see if it happens. Hope it doesn't--let everyone get back to the (weird) question of "What would Buffy do in 1943?"
I'll meet you all in the "Season 8, Issue #3" thread next week. Until then...
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Quote:I have learned from Bruce Lee's example. Does that mean I compare myself to Lee?
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
It’s really stupid to compare the Bush Administration to the Nazis, Chris. Nothing you just said makes any sense. You’re whole premise is wrong. The Bush administration does not control the media and they certainly aren’t using the Nazis as an example.
Of course they aren't Nazis. And of course they do not control the media to the extent that Hitler did.
But the demonization of our newest enemy, the attempted covering up of war crimes, and the constant label of 'effort' in place of 'war' or 'intense conflict' shows spin- an attempt to control perception- don't you see that? Or will it take fifty years to gain 20/20 hindsight on that?
You think Buffy would buy that stylish yet affordable crap?
BTW, thanks for responding Chrisisall
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Quote:Well, thanks...I don't usually, nor do I intend to in the future. Call this my PirateChrisNewsisall moment
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
So, thanks for introducing a political agenda into a completely-unrelated "Buffy" thread, Chris.
Quote:"Buffy would kill Hitler!"
Hope it doesn't--let everyone get back to the (weird) question of "What would Buffy do in 1943?"
"That's an idiotic statement!"
"No it isn't!"
"Yes it is!!"
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If there is a god, then that God abandoned many during World War 2. Even the slayers seemed to have been kept at bay from helping. This planet is full of monsters, and those monsters on the whole are not supernatural; it's us, we are the monsters or are capable of becoming monsters given the right stimuli.
Just finished watching a world war 2 movie and threw up watching a scene where a whole community of butchered people were bulldozed into a mass grave. I hate this planet.
-River
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
If there is a god, then that God abandoned many during World War 2. Even the slayers seemed to have been kept at bay from helping. This planet is full of monsters, and those monsters on the whole are not supernatural; it's us, we are the monsters or are capable of becoming monsters given the right stimuli.
Just finished watching a world war 2 movie and threw up watching a scene where a whole community of butchered people were bulldozed into a mass grave. I hate this planet.
-River
You are absolutely right about human nature. And for that special nauseated horror, you don't need to go back as far as cinemtatically well-presented WW2. Plenty of genocide in the world within less than two decades ago.
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River, don't hyper-focus. There is bad, and evil...but that's just the nature of this, or any other world. There are moments when I feel exactly the same way you do- but that's me keying into the dark side. Choose to focus on, and become part of the positive. Become a Big Sister, share some of your life with a child and regain what you've lost- that sense of wonder- innocence. Or just volunteer at a local school. You need some little smiles in your world, darlin'.
Sorry if I'm making too much with the sappy; it's what I do to get through.
Fellow Browncoat Chrisisall
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Thanks, but I am well aware of the nature of humanity and what it is capable of. It's just that every now and then when I least expect it suddenly it hits me just how historically, and presently cruel and mean we are to one another. Human nature? Yes, it is our way; it's what makes human beings, human beings, but still I don't have to like it, which I don't and never will. One could say that I'm shaking my fist at gravity, and in certain ways I am shaking my fist at something I myself cannot control which in itself is an act of futility, but I would not say that I'm being hyper-focused. Any normal human being with a soul would react to a scene of butchery with revulsions, and disgusts which I demonstrated when I watched that movie; it is a natural response.
Its no wonder that the human race has so many stories of super heroes and champions, or supernatural beings, or Gods and spirits fighting for our best interests because considering the horrors we visited upon each other presently and historically, we are frightened shitless of each other because we know what we are all capable of.
Certainly there are people out there who do good acts, and in many ways are heroes. I acknowledge them and their efforts, but it is also very true that the evil that exists in this world totally outnumbers the good. That good is a thin, blue line that keeps evil at bay, but never enough good to totally destroy it because totally destroying evil means that we end up totally destroying ourselves. How screwed up is that? We seem to need evil. Crazy world if you ask me.
Also, as wired tight as I am I do my bit of good for the undeserving humanity. We all in one form or another have to make a choice about what side we want to be on, and then act on that choice in the many ways available. I am just convinced that even though there are good people out there I believe that most people are evil, or have evil intent...call it greed or lust, or hate, or power and prestige; call it whatever you want it is something that we excel well at speaking historically of course.
One of my top annoyances with the human race is one of so-called racial superiority, or racial inferiority. This has got to be the dumbest thing we ever come with. People point at Africans and say they are inferior because they didn't invent a lot of things, so I guess the measure of human development is what your race as created, invented, or built. Whites think that they are superior to other races because of the many things that have been built. We even gone to the moon, but in my mind this brings us no closer to the all mighty, and in certain ways we are the "N" word of humanity. If there were such a creature as a superior human that human would never need to push that superiority in the faces of other races and blame them for not developing as fast as we did. We are not superior to anyone. I personally think that we are tricked into thinking that all of our fancy gadgets we created is a mark of superiority, but it isn't...not in the least.
Lastly. Looking at the whole white race in general, there have been many that created great things and moved in great strides in science, math, arts and social causes, but the rest of white humanity was just along for the ride. How dare we take the credit of the few great people and say that WE ourselves are superior?
What does this have to do with my original topic I don't know, I guess I just got carried away with just another weird thought banging around in this thing that passes for my brain.
-River
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Quote:One that I have when watching many movies, even during the scene at Haven after the Operative's boys visited.
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Any normal human being with a soul would react to a scene of butchery with revulsions, and disgusts which I demonstrated when I watched that movie; it is a natural response.
Quote:ENNNNNNNNHHH! Wrong answer, Hans.
but it is also very true that the evil that exists in this world totally outnumbers the good.
That's a perception that's innaccurate. If that were true, everyone would be actively trying to kill eachother, most of the time. No, most peeps at their hearts are good folk, just easily fooled into voting for the likes of a Bush. Doesn't make 'em particularly bright, but that's another discussion.
Bright AND good Chrisisall
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getting back to buffy in 1943....
there WAS an occult side to WWII; the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn was involved, Gerald Gardner's coven, and other groups as well on the british side. In the BuffyVerse version of the war, I have little doubt that the Watchers' Council was part of the occult side of the war.
I wouldn't tend to think Hitler would be a vampyre---plenty of sunlit footage of him---but a demon in disguise, perhaps? mayhap he had himself a copy of the books of ascension?
i can certainly see the nazi regime recruiting vampyres into the ranks of the SS. heck---they might have been the ones who came up with the whole system of concentration camps, a "final solution" to the problem of keeping the vamps from feeding on the troops. not so much death camps as vampyric mess halls...
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