Exploring Anti-Americanism
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Monday, April 30, 2007 03:01
VIEWED: 18266
PAGE 12 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Geezer,
"Notice" isn't the thread" - and you apparently don't understand ironic understatement.
Ironic understatement, like humor, doesn't type well. Just say what you mean.
Quote:
"you do actually consider Americans ugly and hateful" - just the ugly and hateful ones.
Which is still, in your opinion, all of us.
Quote:What Causal said. Also, is this an accepted theory, or out on the fringe? Are these sociologists, anthropologists and economists French, by any chance? (See. That last sentence is a joke, but without verbal cues might be taken for a serious statement.)
"the US, '...has an essentially sociopathic economy/culture.'" That argument has been made by sociologists, anthropologists and economists. I can't take credit for it.
Quote:
"an irrational prejudice against Americans" I have some well-founded criticisms, while you seem to think ANY criticism is unjustified.
Well I call bullshit on that. I've criticized American homophobia and interference in reproductive rights. I've noted than changes need to be made in financial laws and development of a mental health system. I've expressed displeasure of politicians of both parties.
You, on the other hand, have never had one positive thing to say about America. You provide unending criticism, often in bigoted and insulting language. You ignore any positives, and give any potential negatives the worst possible interpretation.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Myself personally, I don't think the government can adequately address social problems without unduly interfering with individual liberties. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Why don't the people help those who are in need? Why do they absolve themselves of responsibility and demand that the government do it? The demand that the government take care of every problem seems somewhat like the grown-up version of, "Mom, where's my backpack?"
"Leave me alone, government" and personal responsibility aren't mutually exclusive. Plenty of private service organizations I can help or provide funding to. If I want, I can get involved in trying to get my taxes spent on social problems. I can do this and still think it's none of the government's business if my neighbor wants to marry his boyfriend, aside from providing the license.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I get your point on the actions-taken-in-my name thing. But I'm thiking more internationally. If an American warplane intentionally dropped a bomb into a crowded market and killed 150 people, there'd be an international uproar. But just a couple of weeks ago, a car bomb exploded in a Baghdad market killing about that many. Where's the international outcry over that?
This is an unfair comparison. A military such as the US military has certian obligations (e.g. _not_ randomly killing, _not_ having high colateral damage, etc) because it is largely capable of doing so. The others guys... well we expect guerrilla tactics to have such outcomes. Not saying that it isn't bad, just that it's expected. People don't "freak out" when things are expected.
But see, that's what I see as hypocritical. The US accidentally kills civilians? International protest. Iraqi insurgents intentionally kill civilians? Silence. Why? According to you, because "it's expected". I say we should have higher expectations. Nobody (yes, the U.S. military included) should have a free pass on slaughtering people. Not to be outraged at the intentional killing of civilians is just hypocrisy.
Quote:
But, if you'd give us proof that "the other guy" has access to the level of military tech that the US has, I'd be happy to be part of the international outcry.
Right, because we should only be angry if the slaughter takes place using technologically advanced weaponry. If they use something simpler, like a car bomb, it's OK. Gee, I hope you weren't upset over the genocide in Rwanda; that took place mostly using machetes.
Quote:Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Not to get all overly philosophical on you, but it seems like the trouble is that one can't accurately talk about a large group of people without some amount of generalizing. The danger to that, of course, is that there will obviously always be people who don't fit the generalization. But if one doesn't engage in some degree of generalization, how can one ever talk about a large group?? It's a quandary.
...
Basically, the typical counter agument is "I don't fit that! Therefore, your entire arugment is crap! Whaaa Haaa Haaa!!!"But, when 80-90+% fits the agument, this type of counter arugment is obviously... in trouble.
I'd like to see the data that you have that supports your use of statistics. 80-90% of Americans fit the stereotype? You'd better come up with something more compelling than "in my experience" or I'll just accuse you of sophistry and move on.
Seriously, this reminds of the racist comments I'd ocassionally overhear in years past: "I don't hate all ________; obviously some of them are great folks. But let's be honest: 90% fit the stereotype." That sort of thing just makes one sound self-righteous in their bigotry. Seriously, if the sorts of language being used about Americans were used about ethnic groups, people would be a lot more worked up than they currently are. Why? Because it's wrong to stereotype and prejudge. We had this discussion in another thread a while back. If stereotyping and prejudging is wrong in one case, the burden of proof lies on the stereotyper (if you'll pardon that word) to show how what the relevant moral difference is between the wrong type of stereotyping and prejudging and the right type.
Quote:
You must understand that there is a big difference between what thing /should/ be and how things /are/. The US is said to be a *very* religous nation and with good reason. Every time you turn a corner, religous issues are being talked about.
You'll have to pardon me, I'm just an ignorant American after all. But I don't think it's a bad thing that Americans are religious people. Now, it's an open question exactly how far the influence of religion should extend and in what ways, but it's not bad to be religious as such.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
"an irrational prejudice against Americans" I have some well-founded criticisms, while you seem to think ANY criticism is unjustified.
Well I call bullshit on that. I've criticized American homophobia and interference in reproductive rights. I've noted than changes need to be made in financial laws and development of a mental health system. I've expressed displeasure of politicians of both parties.
You, on the other hand, have never had one positive thing to say about America.
Or anyone to the right of her, ideologically, or anyone in the Republican party.
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I just wanted to take a moment to say how proud I am to be even peripherally associated with this thread and all the posters on it; intelligent discussion has hit a high here on RWED. I've honestly never seen heated debate conducted here with more decency.
Keep it up Browncoats!
*fears he just jinxed it* 
not anti-American Chrisisall
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GEEZER-
Quote:Since when is a military installation anything but a projection of military power? :shakes head: It may be welcome, it may be unwelcome, it may start out being welcome but wind up being resented, but no matter how the government or the population respond to it, it IS a projeciton of military power. In and of itself.
SignyM quotes factoids, which have no meaning in and of themselves, but are meant to lead one to believe that the US is all about military takeovers, manipulation of the world economy, and our complete control of the UN.
So, afa examples of when a government asked us to leave and we didn't? Well- do invasions count? "cause then I can list a whole BUNCH!
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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Quote:What do you mean, somewhat akin? That's exactly what we're doing, we got bored of that sickening smell of garlic from the French fighting the war of independence so we let you have it and tried something else. Has to be said the King thought it wouldn't take this long but it is coming along nicely.
Originally posted by Causal:
Somewhat akin to the British empire's "divide and rule" strategy.
We're going to start thawing him out this June...
...Ask PirateNews he'll tell you all about it. King George, frozen using Antarctic ice in Bohemian Grove...
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Quote:A. So often the people that make the big deal of personal responcibility think OTHERS should take personal responcibility. In reality, its actually quite rare for people to take responcibility for their own actions, unless forced to do so, and it always has.
Originally posted by Causal:
Q Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Quote:A. I believe people do, it's called charity. Though in representative government surely demanding things such as free health care, is, in a way, helping those less fortunate?
Originally posted by Causal:
Q Why don't the people help those who are in need?
Quote:A. Surely, with a representative government, demanding the government do it, and being prepared to pay for government action, is taking responcibility?
Originally posted by Causal:
Q Why do they absolve themselves of responsibility and demand that the government do it?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I just wanted to take a moment to say how proud I am to be even peripherally associated with this thread and all the posters on it; intelligent discussion has hit a high here on RWED. I've honestly never seen heated debate conducted here with more decency.
Keep it up Browncoats!
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
3) What do you mean by "rank ignorance"?
DEPENDENCE ON AMERICAN NETWORK TV FOR NEWS
This thread surpasses ANY network/cable news show in terms of rational thought. I truely wonder if our politicians/supposed leaders think this much about the issues...because they should. My guess is that meeting with thier consultants about the last focus group/study results takes up too much of thier time.
I couldn't agree more chrissisall!...darned fine thread...even learnt a few thangs!
"The world is still turning and you're on it....count yourself lucky" My Dad, 2007.
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In reading this thread I've realized that the cultural ignorance (or ignorance in general), perceived superiority and xenophobia attributed to Americans isn't exclusive to Americans.
Hello Pot? It's Kettle.
Sahara
Blackbird fly into the light of the dark, black night.
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