Exploring Anti-Americanism

POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Monday, April 30, 2007 03:01
VIEWED: 18266
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KHYRON

Friday, April 27, 2007 5:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Okay. Name me a country we currently have a base in, established by treaty, invasion, whatever, where the current government wants us to leave.

Cuba. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay_%28Cuba%29

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

KHYRON

Friday, April 27, 2007 5:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by somebody (Sigma?):
We are _not_ saying that we're better than you. We're saying that you're _not_ better than us. There's a difference.

In my experience, many non-Americans are saying they're better than Americans. They look down upon America as being culturally, intellectually, morally, technologically and/or socially inferior. Anti-Americanism isn't just a cry for America to become more modest (although that's a part of it).

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

CLARKENT913

Friday, April 27, 2007 5:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Okay. Name me a country we currently have a base in, established by treaty, invasion, whatever, where the current government wants us to leave.
Cuba. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay_%28Cuba%29

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

There's probably a few more than just Cuba, I know, a few years ago, we were asked out of Tonga or Samoa, something like that, because we were using one of their islands as target practice.

But then, when there's a natural disaster, tsunami, earthquake, whatever, America's always criticized for not getting there fast enough. So you have to take your pick, America having bases everywhere, or lack of aid?

CLARKENT913

Friday, April 27, 2007 5:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quote:
Originally posted by clarkent913:
We are _not_ saying that we're better than you. We're saying that you're _not_ better than us. There's a difference.
In my experience, many non-Americans are saying they're better than Americans. They look down upon America as being culturally, intellectually, morally, technologically and/or socially inferior. Anti-Americanism isn't just a cry for America to become more modest (although that's a part of it).

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

I think the quotes got messed up, prob my fault :P, cuz I didn't say that, someone else did. Like I've said, I've never heard an American say that, I'm sure someone out there has, I won't be so naive to assume there aren't Americans out there that profess as much. But, I've heard it spoken, that such and such country is better than America, by many others. And they might be right, in different aspects, like any person, each country has it's pluses and minuses.

GEEZER

Friday, April 27, 2007 5:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Okay. Name me a country we currently have a base in, established by treaty, invasion, whatever, where the current government wants us to leave.
Cuba. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay_%28Cuba%29

Got me there.

Let's give it back, with the detainees left in place.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

KHYRON

Friday, April 27, 2007 6:00 PM

Geezer:

Quote:
Originally posted by clarkent913:
I think the quotes got messed up, prob my fault :P, cuz I didn't say that, someone else did.

Oh, sorry Clarkent. In that case my response was addressed to whoever said the statement I quoted. I changed the source in my previous post to not be you.

EDIT: By the use of '_' for bold I suspect it was Sigmanunki. Too lazy to doublecheck.

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

CAUSAL

Friday, April 27, 2007 6:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
GEEZER-
Quote:
SignyM quotes factoids, which have no meaning in and of themselves, but are meant to lead one to believe that the US is all about military takeovers, manipulation of the world economy, and our complete control of the UN.
Since when is a military installation anything but a projection of military power? :shakes head: It may be welcome, it may be unwelcome, it may start out being welcome but wind up being resented, but no matter how the government or the population respond to it, it IS a projeciton of military power. In and of itself.

But projection of military power wasn't what Geezer was talking about. He's saying that facts about spending and bases don't entail the belief that, to quote from above, "the US is all about military takeovers, manipulation of the world economy, and our complete control of the UN. And he's right--it doesn't follow from the projection of military power alone that we are doing those things. That doesn't mean we aren't--it just means that if you want to prove it you have more work to do than just reciting facts about military spending and overseas bases.

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CAUSAL

Friday, April 27, 2007 6:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Somewhat akin to the British empire's "divide and rule" strategy.
What do you mean, somewhat akin? That's exactly what we're doing, we got bored of that sickening smell of garlic from the French fighting the war of independence so we let you have it and tried something else. Has to be said the King thought it wouldn't take this long but it is coming along nicely.

We're going to start thawing him out this June...

...Ask PirateNews he'll tell you all about it. King George, frozen using Antarctic ice in Bohemian Grove...

That's not what I meant. I was referring to the British Imperial policy of "divide and rule" in colonies such as India, where ethnic differences were played up such that the locals couldn't put together a coherent nation-wide resistance to the Raj.

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FREDGIBLET

Friday, April 27, 2007 6:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

I fail to see how the fact that some people on the right are extreme in their view would validate something like the statement that America's bad reputation is fully and wholly the fault of America's conservatives.

I generalized yes, but I see something like this: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ and I see so much of it and all on the conservative side. You make some points that there are extremists on both sides and you are right, but I can't help but see a much more active and larger extremist side on the Right. Groups like Greenpeace are largely ignored by the country at large and the politicians but the extreme Religious Right seems to be considered legitimate as compared to the extreme groups on the left. I can't help but think that the rise of fundamentalism and thus hard Right conservatism in the U.S. is the single greatest threat to world peace /melodrama

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Quote:
Originally posted by FredGiblet:

It was the biggest terror attack ever.

Right but those are spread out over months and huge geographical areas, I'm not trying to say that they aren't important just that the impact is lessened when it is essentially in a country-wide warzone.

Pardon?!?!?

To the first point, I was under the impression that 9-11 was the largest terror attack ever, if I'm wrong please correct me.

To the second, comparing 9-11 to Rwanda-Darfur is like saying "the Battle of Gettysburg was a bloody time for America, but it was nothing compared to WW2" You are comparing things that are two different scales of time and area and that makes the comparison invalid IMO.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by FredGiblet:

The fault for this goes to the politicians, any good military will be extremely aggressive, it's the politicians who set them loose though.

I think that the point is that the US military is aggressive in very bad not terribly effective ways.

Examples please?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by FredGiblet:

The main objection to these is that they would require tax increases and even the people who want to kick out anyone who doesn't desperately love the U.S. can't bring themselves to willingly pay the taxes their government wants.

One /could/ take the money out of the ridiculously large military budget. Hell, it's so large, people might not even notice. Though the people getting health care might

Agreed, I think that with a little more accountability the military could do with much less money and still be as effective.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by FredGiblet:

The UK leads the world in surveillance cameras per capita.

What is more dangerous is that they are starting to have people actively watching with speakers on the camaras now. Nothing like getting ridiculed if you litter.

Only a couple steps away from 1984.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

Odd, since it's written into the consitution. I'd be interested to hear what led you to this conclusion, other than the carricature of the U.S. you get from your news sources. Right, because we must all be theocratic lunatics. That's about as accurate (and nearly as offensive) as saying all Brits have bad teeth.

Churches getting public funding for programs. The 10 commandments being put in court buildings (I think this was resolved by putting them in the back). Religous issues being constant forefront issues during political campaigns (and in general).

You must understand that there is a big difference between what thing /should/ be and how things /are/. The US is said to be a *very* religous nation and with good reason. Every time you turn a corner, religous issues are being talked about.

Agreed, the Right constantly pushes religion ignoring the part in the Constitution where it says the government can't sponsor a religion and ignoring the Supreme Court

CITIZEN

Friday, April 27, 2007 6:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
That's not what I meant. I was referring to the British Imperial policy of "divide and rule" in colonies such as India, where ethnic differences were played up such that the locals couldn't put together a coherent nation-wide resistance to the Raj.

I, erm, know, I was joking...

King George isn't really on ice in bohemia grove.

He's in greenland, the ice is cheaper to get at.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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