Warning Signs
POSTED BY: Jongsstraw
UPDATED: Sunday, April 29, 2007 19:28
VIEWED: 14532
PAGE 12 of 15
Hippie, I never said he wasn't offensive, I said that I rarely find him so, that's a different thing, and rarely doesn't mean never.
As for the accusations, yes, many of them seem to be ridiculous on the face, and even the ones where there is substantial evidence, he takes it to a ludicrous degree, sure.
Some of the stuff however, is addressed by no one else in any form, thus I am willing to tolerate him, gritting my teeth all the while.
Yes, there are times when he gets up my back too, never doubt it, and if want him flagged as such, by all means I am not debating your opinion on that - it's just that a lot of us see him as our pet version of the weekly world news and more amusing than directly offensive, is all.
I do however, feel the need to point out the dichotomy between your previous stance and statements on mental illness and your position here.
No offense whatsoever is meant by that, just that it'd be useful if you could clarify on that one a little bit, regarding an issue like this one.
-Frem
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Desktop: PN brings something to the discussion besides offensive screeds against the Jewish/ Masonic/ Communist/ British/ fill in the blank conspiracy. He's willing to bring up and tackle some of the outrages that have been committed by government; lunatic outrages that border on science fiction.
I had to look up MK/ULTRA, and while I don't think that it's an ongoing nation-wide mind-control program it was a heinous attempt at exactly that. I also happen to believe that some people in the Administration (Rove, Cheney) are sick bastards with superiority complexes bound by godawful perverted practices. (Just WHO do you think Guckert/ Gannon visited 100+ times at the WH?) So. yes, I think PN is one bottle short of a sixpack, but his ... erm... attitude.... allows him to consider things that we wouldn't even think of but maybe should, because not everyone in politics is sane.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
He's willing to bring up and tackle some of the outrages that have been committed by government.
The problem is, his freak show discredits the issue more than it 'tackles' it. It makes it easy for people to dismiss such claims out of hand.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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True, but I think the difference is that PN has a POV (even if whacky) while trolls simply do what trolls do. I personally think it's a shame that a troll was flagged. It would have been a useful and good lesson for some of us (ahem!) on how not to mud wrestle with pigs. We shouldn't need a nanny to keep us from having to deal with trolls. I draw the line at threats and pictures you wouldn't want your kids to see. (You can scan pix a lot faster than you can read and some pix, once seen, remain forever.)
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Always look upstream.
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Those are additions to sentences, in effect additional charges. What I am talking of is an actual multiplier, you serve twice the time if you use a gun. So say you rob a bank, carjack a getaway vehicle (without taking hostages) and flee. By your math you might get 10 years for the bank, 3 years for the car plus 5 years for the gun, total 18 years. I'm saying double the sentence for gun use or (10+3) x2 or 26 years.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Hippie, I never said he wasn't offensive, I said that I rarely find him so, that's a different thing, and rarely doesn't mean never.
As for the accusations, yes, many of them seem to be ridiculous on the face, and even the ones where there is substantial evidence, he takes it to a ludicrous degree, sure.
Some of the stuff however, is addressed by no one else in any form, thus I am willing to tolerate him, gritting my teeth all the while.
Yes, there are times when he gets up my back too, never doubt it, and if want him flagged as such, by all means I am not debating your opinion on that - it's just that a lot of us see him as our pet version of the weekly world news and more amusing than directly offensive, is all.
I do however, feel the need to point out the dichotomy between your previous stance and statements on mental illness and your position here.
No offense whatsoever is meant by that, just that it'd be useful if you could clarify on that one a little bit, regarding an issue like this one.
-Frem
Gorrammit! I missed this completely and now I'm in a hurry and won't be nearly as articulate as you guys.
Okay, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter how much truth there is to his posts (and personally, having on occasion clicked on every single sodding link just to see what the hell he was on about, I've never come accross anything that could be remotely described as true) he's still offensive. In fact, he's downright bigoted. So if we're going to tag offensive posters as offensive, then he should be on the list.
Why am I keen to label a poster when I'm set against labelling people in real life? I said that labelling Cho would have caused a lot more harm than good. That being said, he should have been monitored and given the psychiatric help he needed so he didn't hurt anyone. That didn't happen. We can't send PN to see a shrink, but tagging him means that sensitive posters can avoid him and newbies know he doesn't reflect the opinions of the board in general.
Should we tag posters at all? I think we'd survive without tagging - we have this long - but I guess Haken just got fed up with repeat trolling.
I know you guys are thick skinned enough to find PN funny, I just think that if we *are* going to label offensive posters as such then having an agenda shouldn't make you immune.
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"I know you guys are thick skinned enough to find PN funny ..."
Hmm ... On the one hand, tolerating anti-Jewish - British - German - etc rants. On the other, showing some compassion for a person who appears to not be able to help himself. (Note: NOT getting cheap amusement at that person's predicament.)
I opt for compassion. As to trolls of the other type - trolls by avocation - it's too bad they just can't be automatically routed to troll country. Such is life.
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Quote:But what a lesson they could teach us!
As to trolls of the other type - trolls by avocation - it's too bad they just can't be automatically routed to troll country. Such is life.
Here we have a little community where most of us know each other individually. We know who is likely to respond in what way and their particular issues. Since our interactions are electronic they're totally harmless and mediated by time, eliminating the need to "stand up to" someone who may be significantly larger and louder. It's the perfect opportunity to develop self-control and group awareness. We really shouldn't need "authority" to deal with trolls; trust me, I've been there and done that with similar groups and while asking someone to be banned is a lot quicker (altho they often come back under different guises) NOT FEEDING THE TROLLS is just as effective if not more so. Honest!
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Always look upstream.
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Developing a cohesive response takes a long time. It calls for communicating well-enough that people see the wisdom of ALL doing the same thing. And in fact, it has worked in RWE in the past, when a couple of people were commonly called trolls - one quickly reformed and one disappeared for a long time, only to come back apparently reformed. But it got overdone, and created dispute over who was a troll, what was trolling ... so, in the interim, maybe it would be a nice break IF a couple of 'offensive' posters could be re-routed. (Not that it would happen, just that it would be nice. 
)
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Quote:So what? We got lots of time. And the nice part about it is, trolls are so damn predictable that if we don't get it right the first 200 times we can always try again!
Developing a cohesive response takes a long time
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Always look upstream.
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