What if Jasmine had been Allowed to Reign over Humanity?

POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 04:02
VIEWED: 7475
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RIVER6213

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:20 AM

I was watching the episodes where Jasmine was trying to take over the Earth. Everyone who saw her was happy and wanted to worship her. Everyone who was in her presences felt happy and loved, and wanted to love their neighbor because that was what jasmine wanted.

The point is that everyone was happy, and sure it was a spell that was making everyone feel this way, but you have to weigh the price of this happiness. Jasmine consumed how many humans a day? 12, 15? And how many people would benefit the sacrifice of these people? Millions...billions? Even the people that were selected to be Jasmine's food was happy about it right down to the very last second when she was wearing her lobster bib and was about to consume them. These people were happy about it; they did not die terrified and fearful, they died happy.

I got to thinking about that and decided that the planet Earth would have been better off with Jasmine here than not here at all. She could have benefited human kind in a great many ways. All the war, death, disease, and poverty could have been but a memory for humanity with her active and alive on Earth. I think it was a big mistake for Angel and company to kill her off. I mean look at it this way. The people at WolfRAM & Hart was relived when Angel's group took Jasmine down. That in itself says a lot.

What do you think?

-River

THEREALME

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:55 AM

But the price of this happiness and love was one's free will. Nobody had a choice; they HAD to be happy.

If someone else so totally controls your life, are you alive at all, or just a toy, a puppet?

RIVER6213

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
But the price of this happiness and love was one's free will. Nobody had a choice; they HAD to be happy.

If someone else so totally controls your life, are you alive at all, or just a toy, a puppet?

Good point but for a planet of 6.6 billion people the point would be the quality of their lives and a possible future for their children in a world of peace. I'm certain that the majority would trade off their personal choice for this.

Don't get me wrong. I've thought of this and I've thought of the nature of human beings and their strive for freedom, but at what cost? More than half the planet starves and is in poverty. Wars and limited wars and possible genocidal activities exists all around on this big blue marble we call Earth. Our freedom of choice has its flaws at least at this particular point in time. Maybe someday it will change but right now a lot of people are born, they live, and they die in poverty and totally screwed up lives. More than you can imagine. Jasmine's presences would have eliminated all of that. Just a thought.

-River

THEREALME

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:28 AM

Oh, sure. It was the classic devil's bargain. You get what you want, peace and happiness, in exchange for your soul!

I was very impressed with the sequence.

RIVER6213

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:51 AM

I guess the devil's bargain part comes in the form of a few giving up their lives for the many, and they give their lives happily, which in the long run works for humanity. Humanity would be happy with Jasmine until they aren't anymore, which would take a while until humanity learns to be more humane.

Go figure.

-River

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:28 PM

I thought there was an interesting contrast between Angel's battle with Jasmine to allow the world to retain its free will and his choice to erase Conner's memories. He effectively removed Conner's chance for redemption, which is strange considering what Angel has gone through in atonement for his actions. He allowed Conner to enter a state of blissful ignorance (similar to what Jasmine would have offered the world) in order to remove his suffering (like Jasmine would have offered the world).
I understand why Angel did what he did, but it was hypocritical. If it hadn't been for Vale, Conner would never have had the chance to make up for killing that girl in 'Inside Out'. And thanks to the network, we won't find out if he could!

DEEPGIRL187

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:47 PM

I think that ultimately, even if Jasmine were to create some kind of world peace, her plan would fail. Not because of humanity, necessarily, but do to her own flawed character. Jasmine was so arrogant, so overconfident, that she was bound to slip up somewhere. Had she not had those particular flaws, Angel would not have been able to defeat her in the first place.

Quote:
Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
I thought there was an interesting contrast between Angel's battle with Jasmine to allow the world to retain its free will and his choice to erase Conner's memories. He effectively removed Conner's chance for redemption, which is strange considering what Angel has gone through in atonement for his actions. He allowed Conner to enter a state of blissful ignorance (similar to what Jasmine would have offered the world) in order to remove his suffering (like Jasmine would have offered the world).
I understand why Angel did what he did, but it was hypocritical. If it hadn't been for Vale, Conner would never have had the chance to make up for killing that girl in 'Inside Out'. And thanks to the network, we won't find out if he could!

I understand your point here, but I think you have to look at this situation from a parent's perspective. You want the best for your child, and you want to shield them from all of the bad things, even if those are things they need to experience. Angel wasn't thinking like a hero, he was thinking like a father who loves his son.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."

THEREALME

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 1:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I guess the devil's bargain part comes in the form of a few giving up their lives for the many, and they give their lives happily, which in the long run works for humanity. Humanity would be happy with Jasmine until they aren't anymore, which would take a while until humanity learns to be more humane.

Go figure.

-River

No, in my view EVERYONE under Jasmine's peace would be giving up their souls, their ability to decide, their free will.

Jasmine's peace was the joy in drugs. You weren't REALLY happy; you were just made to feel that way.

I never considered Angel' actions regarding Connor as a parallel to Jasmine, but they are! Yes, Angel wrongly took away Connor's ability to repent by erasing his memory of what horrid things he did. While done for understandable reasons, he was as wrong as Jasmine.

RIVER6213

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I guess the devil's bargain part comes in the form of a few giving up their lives for the many, and they give their lives happily, which in the long run works for humanity. Humanity would be happy with Jasmine until they aren't anymore, which would take a while until humanity learns to be more humane.

Go figure.

-River

No, in my view EVERYONE under Jasmine's peace would be giving up their souls, their ability to decide, their free will.

Jasmine's peace was the joy in drugs. You weren't REALLY happy; you were just made to feel that way.

I never considered Angel' actions regarding Connor as a parallel to Jasmine, but they are! Yes, Angel wrongly took away Connor's ability to repent by erasing his memory of what horrid things he did. While done for understandable reasons, he was as wrong as Jasmine.

Very true indeed, but they wouldn't know that they have no free will, which is the whole point of having a spell put on you, therefore you would be happy about everything and be completely oblivious to the fact that your free will was gone. I guess what I'm saying is what you don't know sometimes won't hurt you, or ignorance is bliss.

For myself I think I would do very well in the Jasmine universe just as long as I was on one side of the planet and she was on the other side. (So I wouldn't be eaten by her)

-River

JWHEDONADDICT

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:26 PM

If this were to really happen I believe that I would probably be in Connor's shoes. Not the crazy-wanna-kill-the-people-who-love-me-or-don't-agree-with-my-point-of-view shoes, but the absence of hope and clinging to the closest things that bring me actual joy, no matter what the cost (in my real-life case it's the Jossverse, and what it tends to hurt is my bank account ).

Seriously though I wouldn't EVER want to give up the right to choose. It would be like what the Alliance did to River, but worse, because it'd be done to billions. To lose the choice of what happens to both your mind and your body? It's unthinkable to me. And it's not genuine happiness, either.

"In Joss We Trust."

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