atleast 20 killed in campus shooting at Virginia Tech

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UPDATED: Friday, November 7, 2025 15:59
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RUE

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:27 PM

"Doesn't bother me, have to be everybody though, because bad guys will always be able to get guns somehow."

Not to pick on any one poster, as several have said much the same. But this is a mantra, usually invoked by what some people call 'the guns nuts', and I have NEVER seen any data on this. I suspect it's one of those things that get repeated over and over, true or not. Does anyone have ANY data to back this up?

Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, this goes into the 'maybe' pile and doesn't count for purposes of the topic.

RUE

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:35 PM

As to Canada and Brazil, Candians have as many RIFLES but not nearly as many handguns. And when sections of Brazil - some favelas noted BTW for extreme poverty, lucrative drug trafficking, and powerful, ultra-violent gangs - instituted a handgun buy-back program, gun deaths dropped 25% in less than a year. That's b/c the figures indicated MOST gun deaths were caused by your average Jose in a bar fight with another average Jose, and not by the criminals.

Guns don't kill people, handguns do?

FLETCH2

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RojBlake:
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Again, other countries have *far* more strict gun laws (hell to my knowledge the UK police still don't carry) and we get along just fine without these violent incidents happening all the time.

Perhaps it's time that you guys decided to actually deal with your issues instead of letting them get out of hand; your politicians only pretending to deal with them. Because your house is on fire and it's not just threatening your neighbours anymore. Our houses are starting to catch fire too.
"

Actually as I understand it more UK police can carry guns now, because their crime rate jumped, as did Australia...after they banned guns!
.

Actually no. The UK had gun bans for a very long time, I believe since the '50's. What has happened recently is that because travel within the EU is so easy people just go to Belgium and buy guns there. Rules on gun ownership in Belgium are very lax in part because Belgium gun manufacturers keep it that way (much like the US gun makes do over here.)

HKCAVALIER

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:32 PM

That's the crazy thing about this debate, Rue. The subject only seems to come up when some lunatic guns down a bunch of people. That's the only time a lot of people feel that "something has to be done."

But exactly nothing can be done in these extreme cases. No amount of control can make us safe from madness.

As for the "average Jose," yes, sure, of course gun control can have an impact, but these freak murder sprees are beyond the reach of any gun legislation.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

ALLIETHORN7

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:42 PM

The problem with gun control, see, is the fact that is a very thin knife edge that you walk with 'em, andmost folk end up gettin' cut... err, shot, I mean.
The U.S. has so many gun-related crimes because it is so easy to physicaly get a gun, but a pain in the ass to legally use 'em. In places like Pennsylvania, where gun control laws are more lax than other parts of the country, the crimes are proportionately less likely to happen. Why? Well, why would someone try to rob folk at gunpoint when they can shoot back? That's like the fool who tried to rob a gunstore (After walking past a marked, yes, MARKED policecar and with a uniformed officer inside. Needless to say, he died with an odd dozen holes in him). If you're more likely to get shot, most folks won't do it! Seems simple, but then you add polotics to the mix. Which means lies, egos, and scandals and the like.

Are we having fun yet?

-Danny

A Ghost is all that's Left,
Of everything we Swore we Never would Forget,
Tried to bleed the Sickness,
But we drained our Hearts instead,
We are... We are the DEAD!!!!!!!!!!
THRICE RULES!!!!!!!!!

SHINYED

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:03 PM

Washington DC has the strictest gun laws in America...also happens to have the highest gun-murder rate too. What does that mean exactly?...I really don't know, but it's significant.

RUE

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:09 PM

Hi there HK.

Just some random thoughts. While there are all sorts of ways to start wars, the only way to end them is when one side has had enough - when there is a sea change of opinion. And for gun violence, I think that's what happened in Brazil. People were finally so tired of the violence they said enough! - não mais! It wasn't the buy-back per se, it was people's desire for a solution and peace. The same thing happened with Imus. As long as only a very limited and self-selected audience was aware of him, he was able to fly under the radar. But the larger world had already said enough for that kind of thing, and, once exposed, his presence shriveled and died.

So, yeah, one really bent dude or dudette can't be stopped by general measures. But overall, it may be possible to stop the vast amount of killing when people, finally, say - enough. And then the problem will be fixed, not because of handgun buybacks or guns being outlawed or whatever specific measure is taken, but because the vast majority will be behind it.

RUE

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:11 PM

"Washington DC has the strictest gun laws in America...also happens to have the highest gun-murder rate too. What does that mean exactly?...I really don't know, but it's significant."

Really? Why?

ROJBLAKE

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:14 PM

Gun control/no gun control is actually irealevant.

Julius Ceaser wasn't killed with an Uzi, Joan of Arc didn't die by firing squad, & thousands of Jews weren't shot by the inquisition.

Murder isn't confined to the use of firearms, gun control is simply a convenient way to keep people in political power.

The 2nd amendment is about keeping control in the hands of citizens...not government.

In Spain in the 15th century they tried to institute "dagger control", it didn't work, & interestingly the criteria to carry a dagger at night was that you had to carrt a torch or lantern & an accompaning sword. This would conveniently deny the ability to defend onesself in the hands of the wealthy, poor people couldn't afford swords.

Most gun control measures work the same way, private security, permits, licences, bodyguards etc. allow monied individuals to violate "weapons resrictions" (even in Europe) while making the poorer classes defenceless.

I'm sure King George was a great proponent of Gun Control, I know Mussalini was.

ROJBLAKE

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:14 PM

According to reports Rosie O'Donnell has a bodyguard who carries a full-auto machine pistol.

One of the members of the much forgotten (& rightfully so) "Million Mom March" was busted in New York for carrying a handgun while putting up signs for the (anti-gun) march.

Sen. Fienstien who is a big supporter of gun control legislation (& has Secret Service protection) owns, & has permits for at least 2 handguns.

The hypocrisy on the issue inself is so thick you couldn't get a .50 cal BMG round through it.

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