atleast 20 killed in campus shooting at Virginia Tech
POSTED BY: Feity
UPDATED: Friday, November 7, 2025 15:59
VIEWED: 17813
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Quote:
I don't see how gun control is the issue.
Because campuses for the most part are "Gun Free Zones" which means they ban even legal CCW holders from carrying on the property, rendering them defenseless.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770
This is the reason why I will *NOT* pick up, or drop off, on-campus, period.
Why not just put up a "Unarmed Victims Here!" sign ? in the end it amounts to the same thing, most every multi shooting of this nature happens in a place where firearms are not welcome, because the shooter KNOWS his targets are defenseless.
While I don't agree with the man about a lot of things, Lawdog says it better than I ever could.
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2007/04/virginia-tech-shooting.html
And, if I was any of the victims parents, I would be levelling charges of reckless endangerment and criminal negligence against the college administration in response to such an idiotic policy.
Criminals do not obey the law, that's why they're criminals, so such a restriction only affects law abiding folk, setting them up as defenseless victims for any predator that happens by - this is also why I do not stop at Ohio rest stops, because they have a similar "Victims Here!" policy.
If I can't pack, I don't go.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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What you're pointing out is that inequities in gun rules create two populations. Perhaps the answer is uniform rules - everybody, or nobody.
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Gun control is a moot issue. As in it has nothing to do with why people shoot one another.
For example, Canada has pretty much the same number of guns per capita as the US. We also have *far* more strict gun laws. Yet, we don't have nearly the violent crime that the US does i.e. the "Unarmed Victims Here!" argument is utter crap.
Hmmm... perhaps, just perhaps it is a societal thing rather than a gun law thing. Maybe. Just maybe. I mean, I'm actually starting to wonder if people in the US will ever realize that there are other options than guns when solving problems. As in working to solve the root problem rather than working to deal with it at such a catastrophic level. The root problem being that the US has an *extremely* violent culture.
Several people here have implied that people should carry firearms so that things like this won't happen (or at least not on this scale). Well, it is *very* obvious that this is just a "band-aid" to the problem. And a *very* bad one at that. All this will do is further re-enforce the violent culture that is the very problem in the first place.
Again, other countries have *far* more strict gun laws (hell to my knowledge the UK police still don't carry) and we get along just fine without these violent incidents happening all the time.
Perhaps it's time that you guys decided to actually deal with your issues instead of letting them get out of hand; your politicians only pretending to deal with them. Because your house is on fire and it's not just threatening your neighbours anymore. Our houses are starting to catch fire too.
----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What you're pointing out is that inequities in gun rules create two populations. Perhaps the answer is uniform rules - everybody, or nobody.
Criminals will ALWAYS get guns, so it is impossible to ban guns for criminals. Anyone can manufacture their own gun out of household items, even criminals INSIDE A PRISON. A shotgun can be made out of steel pipe with a screw-on cap.
At Columbine, which was a federal VICTIMS HERE GUN BAN area, the Jewish Trenchcoat Mafia and/or govt agents carried in 120 BOMBS, some weighing 100 pounds each. The 2 "official" Jewish shooters only hunted Christians, asking their vitims what their religious preference was (hint: LIE and say you are Jewish). The 2 official shooters ran the school website, and turn in a school project showing themselves walking through the school shooting people, before the actual shooting. Half the students were warned not to show up that day, and the sheriff and principal knew to stay away at lunch TOGETHER that day. The SWAT cops confessed on audiotape to shooting escaping students, then waited 4 hours to go in.
I wonder if any students or victims families will sue for an injunction to allow students and faculty to carry firearms at this school?
It will be interesting to see how the facts play out in this new case, regarding covert actions and mind-control projects. The shooter's brother is in jail for bank robbery, escape and murders, after being mind-controled as a govt serial killer in the Gulf Wars. Pentagon's Operation Northwoods included govt snipers, gunmen and bombers assassinating folks at random in USA, to create terror and blame innocent patsies. The Virginia Tech shootings were preceeded by at least 6 "bomb threats" and "mass evacuations" or "drills" in the past week, just like on 9/11/2001.
At the least, Uncle Scam is criminally negligent (a felony) for disarming the slaves and denying them the right to self defense. All college administrators and members of congress responsible should be immediately arrested for this crime, by citizen's arrest if necessary, and prosecuted by pro se special prosecutors, if the DA refuses to do his job by obstructing justice, which is also a crime outside his discretion. But I bet the sheeple do nothing, and just sue in civil court for negligence, for a bribe to shut up. They don't even have to sue in court to get paid hush money, they just file a claim at the college Risk Management Office, under Federal or Virginia Tort Claims Act, which is often required before suing Big Brother in a court.
This is the same genocidal psychopathic Uncle Scam that murdered 25,000 US citizens since 9/11/2001, by refusing to arrest 40-million criminal aliens in USA, and murdered 2.5-million Iraqis in the nonstop 15-year war. Was this "Asian" school shooter an illegal alien ignoring a visa?
Quote:
"Operation NORTHWOODS may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. Operation Northwoods had called for nothing less than the launch of a secret campaign of TERRORISM within the United States."
—James Bamford, ABC News, "Friendly Fire: U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba", May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
"We could develop a Communist Cuba TERROR campaign in the Miami area, in other Flordia cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could foster attempts [sniper and handgun attacks] on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots. "
—General Lyman Lemnitzer, chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff at Pentagon, Memo to Secretary of War Robert McNamara, Subject: Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba - Operation NORTHWOODS, March 13, 1962
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf
www.geocities.com/tetrahedronomega/
Tuesday at 11am Eastern Time today, Rosie O'Do
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What you're pointing out is that inequities in gun rules create two populations. Perhaps the answer is uniform rules - everybody, or nobody.
Doesn't bother me, have to be everybody though, because bad guys will always be able to get guns somehow.
Thing is, as I have said time and time again, I carry a piece for the exact same reason I have a fire extinguisher - to hold my own and protect myself until the cavalry arrives (via cellphone) or cover my ass while I make a quick escape.
And I am beginning to believe that anyone who honestly, truly, has a problem with me carrying via that philosopy and with that express purpose.. is suffering from some level of mental illness.
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i.e. the "Unarmed Victims Here!" argument is utter crap.
Oh ?
Would you be willing to rent a place in the worst projects ghetto you could find, for a month, with a sign on the door stating
"This is a gun free home, firearms are not welcome here!"
Does that seem sensible ?
Logical ?
Do you think it would ensure your safety ?
It's the same principle, so don't be telling me it's "utter crap" unless you're willing to bet your very life on a "Gun Free Zone" to protect you.
The day I see such a barrier physically stop a criminal like a stone wall, I might start believing in it, but it makes as much sense as holding up a don't bite me sign in front of a freshly chummed shark and expecting it to stop him.
I also don't buy that a physical object, an inanimate THING, and a tool causes the problem - as you noted culture and society and social ills aplenty contribute to it, and either directly or indirectly cause it, sure, but a firearm in and of itself, never harmed anyone - and until the day I see one levitate off the table and blow a hole in someone, I categorically reject any attempt to blame the tool instead of the user.
That's like blaming me, personally, for what this lunatic did, and I find that offensive in the extreme - if you think someone like me is contributing to the danger, you've got some serious problems upstairs.
There is what should be, and there is what IS.
I refuse to blind myself to the obvious and depend on naivety and hope to protect myself and those I care about, when there are tools available to ensure that safety as such as possible, nobody sees my toolbox, flashlight or fire extinguisher as a crime about to happen, why the bloody hell should they see my piece that way, I ask you ?
As long as there are are bad people in this world, unstable people, folks who wanna take from you, hurt you, even kill you - folks should have every right to an effective, meaningful defense of their own person at all times, and anyone who would wish to take that from me makes no more sense to me than someone who would wish to ban my fire extinguisher or my flashlight.
You're welcome to protect yourself with nothing more than hope and faith, it's your life and yours to run as you see fit - but I choose to protect myself with something a bit more substantial, and the moment someone tries to take that from me, I question why - and come away not liking any of the answers.
Until the day you can magically make gun toting criminals disappear from the earth, you can take your gun free zones and stuff em, because all that is, is wishful thinking and naivety, and THAT gets people killed.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Again, other countries have *far* more strict gun laws (hell to my knowledge the UK police still don't carry) and we get along just fine without these violent incidents happening all the time.
Perhaps it's time that you guys decided to actually deal with your issues instead of letting them get out of hand; your politicians only pretending to deal with them. Because your house is on fire and it's not just threatening your neighbours anymore. Our houses are starting to catch fire too.
"
Actually as I understand it more UK police can carry guns now, because their crime rate jumped, as did Australia...after they banned guns!
The US also has a higher level of personal freedom than many Europeean-socialist countries. In the UK as I understand it you are taxed at 100% after a certain amount of money is obtained, which is why many UK actors & writers come to the US.
Nobody has said this that I'm aware of, but does anyone else notice a difference in this "rampage" as compared to other such events?
Like a 2 hour lull in activity? Like a half-mile geographic shift in location? If this was indeed the same shooter why the change?
If he just wanted to kill people then why not just kill folks in the dorm?
What about the bomb threats?
This incident stinks...& I don't mean just in the level of death.
Also could someone explain to me how we have a 32 to 15 (18) dead to wounded ratio?
That's some pretty decent accuracy from a "lunatic" who it is being said comes from another country, actually that's pretty good accuracy for anyone.
I'm not buying the official line on this...it don't smell right.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RojBlake:
Nobody has said this that I'm aware of, but does anyone else notice a difference in this "rampage" as compared to other such events?
Like a 2 hour lull in activity? Like a half-mile geographic shift in location? If this was indeed the same shooter why the change?
If he just wanted to kill people then why not just kill folks in the dorm?
What about the bomb threats?
This incident stinks...& I don't mean just in the level of death.
Also could someone explain to me how we have a 32 to 15 (18) dead to wounded ratio?
That's some pretty decent accuracy from a "lunatic" who it is being said comes from another country, actually that's pretty good accuracy for anyone.
I'm not buying the official line on this...it don't smell right.
As I understand it he lined them up & shot them in the head, that's why the high kill ratio.
I believe he went to the Engineering building because he probably was an engineering student himself...and it is after all called Virginia Tech...what better way to inflict terror than with the brightest kids there, the engineers?
My question is...Where does a foreign exchange student get these handguns?
I believe the 2 hour delay was due to...he walked across campus after killing his girlfirend(??) and another, then walked calmly over to a coffee shoppe and pondered his options...knowing he would get caught eventually, he decided to go out in a blaze of "glory" and take as many with him as possible...that is a very common theme amongst these psychopaths.
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I was waiting for this:
Quote:
"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.
http://wtop.com/?nid=644&sid=1116587
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Police identified the classroom shooter as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior from South Korea who was in the English department and lived in another dorm on campus. They said Cho committed suicide after the attacks, and there was no indication Tuesday of a possible motive.
Two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were found on the guns used in both shootings. The serial numbers on the two weapons had been filed off, the officials said.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Just gotta say that this whole gun control/no gun control argument is completely beside the point.
There is no physical way to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Perhaps you can protect yourself--live in a concrete bunker, pay people to get your mail, or something--but You won't prevent this from happening to someone else.
Even with the strictest, most totalitarian government in place, a man who wants to get a gun will get a gun and if he has no interest in his own survival he can kill a bunch of people before he dies. On the other hand, even if guns were as available as cigarettes, many, many people would have no interest in owning one. So what? Do we make laws requiring that every citizen own a gun and carry it? What would we do with folks who broke that law, shoot them?
As long as we live in a world of strangers this kind of thing is possible. As long as concepts like "going out in a blaze of glory" appeal to the human mind, this kind of thing can happen.
We cannot control the darkness in the human soul, but we can learn to understand it. Maybe we should try. That's what 9/11 should have taught us, but sadly, we've got a long way to go before we choose the healing option over the revenge option.
Will there ever come a day when healing is cool?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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