RE:

POSTED BY: Lance
UPDATED: Monday, April 9, 2007 13:57
VIEWED: 13046
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LANCE

Monday, April 2, 2007 5:30 PM

Just one more thing. (Note: Okay, edited this entry. It was nothing untoward, just wrong headed. I'm sorry about that.)

I went back to the forum archives and found that there were a lot of people who agreed with the problems I had with the movie. They even go further than just talking about Wash. I understand what was stated back then. One revelation was that the movie characters and story were changed from the series to sell more tickets. That sounds to me like money had some influence on the movie.

There are hundreds of pages in these threads and I have only read the first of them. They say it better than I did. If some have rationalized it over time, then you should go back and read what was said by others on first blush. If after that you still want to believe that Serenity is great, that's your prerogative. I can't.

I agree with Fireflygal that there is enough death and heartache in real life without having more of it dumped on us. Joss made us love the characters, but he also hurt us, or me at least.

http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=12689

I doubt that I will ever watch the Serenity DVD again, and right now I think I will not see the other Serenity DVD's in the future. I'll stick with Firefly and will see it many more times I hope. But I refuse to acknowledge that Serenity had anything to do with Firefly and will attempt to block it out of my mind as an aberration or a bad dream

The other DVD I already had and intended to watch next was Done the Impossible. Now I'm not sure I want to see that if it's only a build up of Serenity.

Some people may think it's going too far to reject the whole movie. I think Joss rejected a big part of the heart of Firefly, and that was cruel. The only thing that could have been worse is if he had killed Kaylee too, then there would have been no heart left at all.

I really didn't intend to write anything else on this thread after yesterday. I thought I was the only one who cared about this stuff. There were others back in Fall 2005, but they could have changed their minds since that time.

I guess I'm definitely not much of a Browncoat after this, but then I was never much into socializing anyway. Much as I would like to dress up as Wash, I think the spike and blood would just be too cumbersome and messy.

ZEEK

Monday, April 2, 2007 8:48 PM

You're totally welcome to state your opinion here. Just know that it's not everyone else's opinion as well.

There were plenty of people who cried out to save Wash after first seeing the movie. There were people who cried in theaters. There were also people who loved the movie. I was one of the latter. I waked out of the theater knowing that it was the biggest rush I'd ever experienced from a movie. Killing Wash was a big part of that. It kept me on the edge of my seat through the end of the movie. I really thought that Kaylee, Simon, Zoe, Mal and River were all on the brink of death at the end. Thoughts of "would Joss really kill them all...maybe he would" ran through my head.

Just because I didn't want Wash to die doesn't mean it was the wrong decision. It still made for a great movie.

LANCE

Monday, April 2, 2007 9:17 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Monday, April 2, 2007 9:36 PM

@Lance:

Some of us that didn't like the movie (or most of it) are still here; I'm one of them. Then again, most of the people that were here pre-BDM are no longer here. The climate has certainly changed. For instance, I rarely participate in FF/S discussions because the tone has pretty much gotten shrill.

But, what you must understand is that most of us just keep our mouths shut when stuff like this comes up again. Why? Because we are usually chastised for our opinion. The discussion degrades to something not even remotely fruitful.

That being said, the "mob" isn't the only side that becomes shrill. i.e. your outburst was hardly productive. With this in mind, I'd suggest to make your communications more palatable. Otherwise, even people who support your stance (or content thereof) won't stand buy you.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

LANCE

Tuesday, April 3, 2007 8:13 PM

Actually I toned that last entry down quite a bit, even after I said I wouldn't. Maybe I went a little too far in saying things best left unsaid, but I didn't think it was shrill by any means. At least I didn't intend it that way. I was just annoyed with the situation and still am.

Tell me the worst parts and I'll edit it some more. Not that it makes any difference to anyone. Talking about it is pretty much a waste of time I know. It's like all forms of politics I guess, but in this case we don't get a vote, or even a say.

I love Firefly but not Serenity. Firefly is wonderful and inspiring. It makes me want to sit down and create my own world and stories. I've done a little of that but not near enough.

LANCE

Tuesday, April 3, 2007 8:53 PM

Okay I edited the "One more thing" entry above. I probably should have done that in the first place. But I didn't delete the criticisms of the movie or the final, though sad attempt at humor.

ZEEK

Tuesday, April 3, 2007 9:19 PM

Well at least the way you feel should make you appreciate how great of an artist Joss really is. I mean he created a fictional character that became so close to you that you actually go through the real life grieving process when the character is killed. That's pretty impressive don't you think?

MARINA

Tuesday, April 3, 2007 9:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Well at least the way you feel should make you appreciate how great of an artist Joss really is. I mean he created a fictional character that became so close to you that you actually go through the real life grieving process when the character is killed. That's pretty impressive don't you think?

I tend to agree with that - with today's audiences (let me quantify that by saying I'm not of an "oh the good old days" persuasion, but social/political/intellectual climates do change over time) ... so, with today's audience who are, by most accounts, both fairly desensitized to surprises and well versed in cinematic formula (whether they realize it or not), how do you surprise them? How do you keep an audience who, for the past 90 minutes, thought they knew (or had a vague idea) of what would happen and how it would be wrapped up (e.g. River comes to terms with her issues (which they expect to be revealed) and relationships are repaired (Mal/Inara and Simon/Kaylee jump instantly to mind)) glued to the screen for the final climactic scene?

You break the mold. You do something you don't have "permission" to do. You make the viewers question their assumptions and expectations.

That said, I also tend to agree that Wash, beyond being comic, was a really important character for the dynamic of the show and the movie - not only do a lot of people identify with him as the "most normal," but he was also level-headed, the voice of reason if you will. If it had been MY movie (in my dreams) I probably would have killed off someone else. BUT the fact remains that Joss' vision, i.e. what he wanted to accomplish with Firefly, was cut short, and so while it may not have been palatable to lose Wash so soon, it was probably an essential part of the larger act we never got to see.

Don't make faces.

LANCE

Tuesday, April 3, 2007 10:00 PM

Hear I go again. I just read some more of the entries on the linked thread from above.

http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=12689

I just find it incredible the unquestioning devotion people have for Joss Whedon. It seems like it wouldn't matter what he did to a story, they would just accept it.

I've read quite a few great stories where no one dies. So where the idea comes from that if no one dies it doesn't "ring true," I don't know. It's not true, it's made up, anything can happen including a happy ending. If we really love the characters and not just the temporary visceral experience, then they should live. Just as we want the people we live with in real life to live. I would hope no one wants to see one of there friends or a family members die just so that they can experience the agony of lose. That would be ridiculous and sick. I think that wanting or easily accepting it happening to a beloved character, just for shock value is also ridiculous.

This brings me to another idea. Human beings are "built" to believe stories. That's all we had in the beginning, the story teller telling legends around a fire. This was how information and experience was passed on. The ability to picture these things in our minds and seem to experience them is what makes us able to read a book or watch a movie and be pulled in without even realizing it. But I think these abilities should not be toyed with by the story teller. We put our trust in them and they should respect that and not use that trust to harm us emotionally.

I think I'm going to go fly my airplane for a while and try to forget about this stuff.

ZEEK

Tuesday, April 3, 2007 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lance:
But I think these abilities should not be toyed with by the story teller. We put our trust in them and they should respect that and not use that trust to harm us emotionally.

Different strokes for different folks. You might be at a disadvantage from never being a buffy/angel fan. For those of us who followed Joss through those shows and right on to Firefly/Serenity we all knew what Joss was capable off. Major characters were never safe in those shows. We came into Firefly/Serenity knowing that Joss will likely kill the characters we've grown to love. I personally like his style of storytelling. Not everything is a happy ending. I like never knowing what's coming next and Joss is an expert at that.

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