No comments on "Shells"?

POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Monday, March 15, 2004 19:41
VIEWED: 7415
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PHOENIXSHIP

Friday, March 5, 2004 7:31 PM

I have to agree. While I have no problem with the song itself, I thought it was a strange choice to end the episode. I prefer the show's theme music because it's always so damn fitting.

I gotta say, the last two eps have not had the emotional impact on me they should have. Maybe it's because I caught wind via spoilders of Fred's death, but I was really expecting it.

What I wasn't expecting was Illyria's change of heart, her sudden interest in humanity and her attachment to Wesley. Neither me nor my wife really bought into it. As I told her, though, let it take us where Joss wants it to go. He's always come through for us. It'll be interesting to see where he takes it with the truncated schedule. I'm still holding out hope that the Tribune folks will pull a rabbit out of the hat.

What will become of Gunn? I can't imagine Wesley forgiving him, short of some mortal sacrifice on his part.

Please, why can't we stay?

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

11THHOUR

Saturday, March 6, 2004 7:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
Shells was a great episode that really had me engaged... laughing/crying.

The character of Knox provided a rich source of comedy material for this ep! He was like a love struck schoolboy over his ressurected demon goddess. And she was the proper ice mistress right back.

Then there was Harmony's choice snide comments about Knox's girlie ways. Good stuff!!

Quote:
However I am SO SICK of cheesy pop songs laid over melancholy montages. Not sure why the producers chose to do this at the end of the episode. Yes, the characters are sad and things have changed... but wouldn't some nice moody original music from the show's composer have been a better choice?

Oh yeah... got that right. I think I audibly groaned when the sappy song started playing over the montage. That's also the kind of stuff that doesn't age well.

Quote:
Is there some clause in the WB's standard contract that requires pop songs to appear in each and every one of their shows? It's becoming insipid.

Perhaps the Warners Music division is making a 'compilation' album of songs on the WB shows. They need something represented from all. The title of the album could be, "Music to get all depressed by".

11thHour
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"Doing the impossible makes us mighty." - Malcolm Reynolds

11THHOUR

Saturday, March 6, 2004 7:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenixship:
What I wasn't expecting was Illyria's change of heart, her sudden interest in humanity and her attachment to Wesley. Neither me nor my wife really bought into it. As I told her, though, let it take us where Joss wants it to go. He's always come through for us.

Illyria did seem to soften rather surprisingly and show willingness to be taught by a disgusting human. Could be just her own self interest after realizing that she's stuck in her 'shell' and her original world is destroyed. It's the common theme she and Wes share now. Could be VERY interesting...

Perhaps the fragments of Fred are also affecting Illyria. After all her confidence and bluster were removed, the 'Fred parts' may be influencing her now.

Or she's just playing an angle and is using Wes to achieve 'Take Over The World and Wipe Out the Humans, Plan B'.

I was moved though by Wes's obvious heartbreak when looking at Fred's physical body and remembering his lost love. The grief is so raw and recent, that he is willing to assist the being who was the instrument of Fred's death just to experience some echo of her.

Which, by the way, reminds me...

Fred's soul was burned up and totally obliterated in the fire's of Illyria's ressurection??!! Man... that is CRUEL. Not only was Fred killed, but her 'eternal' soul was wiped out of existence on top of it?!! She has been literally uncreated. That is hard core stuff there... even for Joss.

11thHour

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"Doing the impossible makes us mighty." - Malcolm Reynolds

LJOSALF

Saturday, March 6, 2004 5:54 PM

I would like to point out the opening of Hole in the World and the ending of Shells focus on Fred's journey to LA. Although they take place in the past, they are placed where they are in the storyline for a reason. Remember that Fred told her parents in the intro to Hole in the World that she was going to learn everything that was out there to learn and then she was going to figure out answers that nobody else had thought of before (wish I could quote the line but I no longer have the episode to refer to). At the end of Shells, Fred gets into the station wagon and begins her journey to LA--much as Illyria in her sarcophagus journeyed to LA from the Deeper Well. There is more to come for Fred either tragic or triumphant in the storyarc we are in now.

MHO, if--and it is indeed a big if--Fred returns in some way, shape or form, it will be from her own efforts not from being saved by the gang.

Ljosalf

The voyage of discovery is not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.
Marcel Proust (1871 - 1922)

11THHOUR

Sunday, March 7, 2004 6:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ljosalf:
I would like to point out the opening of Hole in the World and the ending of Shells focus on Fred's journey to LA. Although they take place in the past, they are placed where they are in the storyline for a reason. Remember that Fred told her parents in the intro to Hole in the World that she was going to learn everything that was out there to learn and then she was going to figure out answers that nobody else had thought of before (wish I could quote the line but I no longer have the episode to refer to). At the end of Shells, Fred gets into the station wagon and begins her journey to LA--much as Illyria in her sarcophagus journeyed to LA from the Deeper Well. There is more to come for Fred either tragic or triumphant in the storyarc we are in now.

Excellent points. You are correct... there were little seeds sprinkled here and there that hint at possiblities that there is more than meets the eye concerning Fred's fate.

I was struck with how utterly final it has been pronouced that Miss Winnifred Berkle is no more, period. It's just that kind of finality that would make for a great setup for an amazing restoration of Fred... should it come to pass.

Just as there are connections between Fred's journey and Illyria's journey, another possible connection was brought up regarding the story Wes was reading to Fred as she was suffering. I believe the story was "The Little Princess", which involved an extraordinary young girl who escaped a painful 'real world' by retreating into a world of her own creation. Was this something Fred managed to achieve?

Also, toward the end with Wesley, she defiantly exclaimed that 'her power' was that she would not allow herself to be taken. That was the most powerful and intense Fred has ever been... she was absolutely determined.

Quote:
MHO, if--and it is indeed a big if--Fred returns in some way, shape or form, it will be from her own efforts not from being saved by the gang.

Ljosalf

IF that were to happen, it would be a tremendous demonstration of her inner strength. When all her brave and strong hero 'boys' were unable to save her... slender, brillant but shy, sweet Winnifred proved she could do what they could not.

Or... not.

11thHour

AVER

Sunday, March 7, 2004 7:13 AM

Quote:
MHO, if--and it is indeed a big if--Fred returns in some way, shape or form, it will be from her own efforts not from being saved by the gang.

Ljosalf

IF that were to happen, it would be a tremendous demonstration of her inner strength. When all her brave and strong hero 'boys' were unable to save her... slender, brillant but shy, sweet Winnefred proved she could do what they could not.

Or... not.

11thHour

Yeah! That made me tear up. Well put.

FLYINFREE

Sunday, March 7, 2004 9:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
Shells was a great episode that really had me engaged... laughing/crying.

However I am SO SICK of cheesy pop songs laid over melancholy montages. Not sure why the producers chose to do this at the end of the episode. Yes, the characters are sad and things have changed... but wouldn't some nice moody original music from the show's composer have been a better choice?

Is there some clause in the WB's standard contract that requires pop songs to appear in each and every one of their shows? It's becoming insipid.

Unless Joss wrote the song (ala BTVS: Conversations with Dead People)... stop using licensed pop songs to convey your point, please! It's cheesy as hell and I don't want to associate the excellent Mutant Enemy shows with cheese.

mattro

Joss and Tim love cheesy. The entire camera-work on Firefly was to get that cheesy spagetti-western feel.

"...we're still flyin'."
"That's not much."
"It's enough." Malcolm Reynolds and Simon Tam - Serenity

GHOULMAN

Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:32 PM

SPOILERS!!!
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Fred is gone. Gone gone. As are Wes, Angel, and Gun. Notice - NONE of these characters are 'here' anymore. They have become shells of thier former 'fight the good fight' selves.

They are but shells with no soul. No feeling inside. This is 'the big chill' for the Angel characters and none of them will get out undamaged. Wolfram&hart has changed Angel and the gang just as corporate culture would change any person.

And yea, I thought the musical montage was a bit 'Buffy' but I won't nit-pick such a dramatic ep.

INITIO101

Friday, March 12, 2004 6:45 PM

Here are my thoughts:

1. The female main cast member going bad is getting alittle old (i.e. willow, cordelia?)

2. On the other hand, amy acker's Illyria persona is very betwitching and sensual with the blue hair and makeup. I think she's hot.

3. The note of regret from Illyria right now just doesn't make sense and was alittle awkward. I didn't buy it either, especially given how it's been explained repeatedly that she's an ancient demon. Regret is something that she would just ignore. But I have my faith in Joss and the gang to give us something fulfilling.

4. What's the point of Wesley packing the pistols when it's established that semi-automatic machine guns can't kill her back in Hole in the World?

5. The end pop song felt forced. I'd much prefer a melancholy tune by the show composer.

6. Overall not bad and I'm optimistic. Angel is still 100% better than all the other shows on WB, including Smallville.

KURUKAMI

Friday, March 12, 2004 7:25 PM

Other than the fact that said submachine guns didn't have a chance to fire? Besides, apparently Illyria does have to concentrate to shift over to fast-time, which is why Wesley was even able to put a gun to her head in the first place.

Small spoilerish side note, though. While browsing at TVTome's Angel site, I came across this little cast tidbit for two episodes from now.

http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServlet/showid-12/epid-2
76675/

Interesting revelation, I'd say. Don't go to the page if you don't want a fairly major spoiler.

"Sir, I would like to gingerly point out that it is difficult for someone to be gently reassuring when they're holding three and a half feet of sharpened steel."

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