Sex slavery still alive and well in England
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Thursday, June 19, 2025 16:12
VIEWED: 12445
PAGE 7 of 13
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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Self preservation comes above sex as far as natural instincts are concerned. Also there has been a vast amount of civil conditioning we've all experienced to curb most of our behavior when we know other people are watching, especially sexual behavior. Both of these facts make your example of a job interview and a house burning down and killing you very, very different from an addiction which takes place virtually free of imminent doom and is also done in secrecy, where nobody you know is going to know (or at least there is that assumption going in, or they wouldn't go in, in the first place).
So are you in favor of restricting access to anything that's capable of being an object of addiction to protect people with addiction-prone personalities (and I refuse to categorize all men as this)?
Because, while you claim that buying sex from a person legally would be more addicting than anything else, I have yet to see proof of this and in turn I claim that no such thing is going to happen. Some people are alcoholics, some people are video game addicts, some people are internet porn addicts. They are not all people and not even the vast majority of people. You can't outlaw everything because some people aren't fit to control themselves.
Plus, there is one giant difference.
Keeping prostitution illegal harms women. True and real harm. It just cannot be regulated and controlled because it is illegal.
You weigh that as less important than a theoretical harm coming to men based on your theory that a significant amount of them do not have the self-control to use their brain.
But in that case, they could just as well be internet-porn-addicted or alcoholics or druggies. Responsibility is a big part of life, the kind of responsibility every adult person - male or female - should be able to exert in order to be allowed to roam the planet freely and not be institutionalized as a danger to themselves.
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Lastly, I'm not even aware of you asking a similar question before. This one is worded very differently from anything you said before and would have required a much shorter answer. Thanks for making me type all that
I asked if you're not ashamed to describe all men as gibbering idiots.
Since you implied in your assertion that the legal offer of sex on sale would turn a significant number of them into instant-addicts without free will and that therefor prostitutes are better of suffering unprotected by the law.
Basically, you are saying that it's okay for women to suffer in illegality because men can't be bothered to control their burning sex addiction.
I call bullshit.
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I'd like you to point out to me where I was in the least bit trollish about women's lib. I simply mentioned it and it seems to me that since you're not agreeing with what I have to say, you're just calling me a troll.
You said: "Sorry baby. The womens lib movement pretty much cut off all of our balls."
Which is a) not true and b) irrelevant to the subject.
a) If you consider equal standards of behavior as "cutting off men's balls", well... I do truly feel sorry.
b) This has nothing to do with the legality or illegality of prostitution.
That coupled with your glib tone, I considered trollish. Sorry if I was presumptious.
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I don't think that prostitution is covered under women's lib, nor do I think it should be.
Oh, it absolutely is part of it and should be! What could be a more fitting subject to feminism than women doing business with their bodies? It's theirs to sell if they want to. Except the law says it's not and thus "theirs" and "want to" become very complex, muddled and dangerous issues.
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You certainly seem to want the entire hooker population to be legalized and put under government regulation which in my mind would one day lead to a large portion of society living the Inara type life... minus space and all, of course.
I'm confuse
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
So are you in favor of restricting access to anything that's capable of being an object of addiction to protect people with addiction-prone personalities (and I refuse to categorize all men as this)?
All I have to say is if you're going to take the freedom to do harm to yourself as you please, you had better be behind smoker's rights then.
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Because, while you claim that buying sex from a person legally would be more addicting than anything else, I have yet to see proof of this and in turn I claim that no such thing is going to happen. Some people are alcoholics, some people are video game addicts, some people are internet porn addicts. They are not all people and not even the vast majority of people. You can't outlaw everything because some people aren't fit to control themselves.
You don't have proof of it because most of it is done in secret. If you haven't heard, 70% of the internet is porn. It is the single most lucrative business on the internet and one of the major reasons so many people have machines that they don't understand in their house today. It may not be all people, but if you think we live in a Disney world, you're living a dream. I'll come right out and say that I haven't had a serious girlfriend for years. I won't blame this on the internet. I don't want the hassle anymore and as much as I can't stand being around them after the novelty wears off, I've hurt women emotionally more than I'd care to admit. I don't want to do that anymore. The internet makes romance very easy to avoid 99% of the time.
I really hope you're all about smokers rights if this is your stance on prostitution.
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Keeping prostitution illegal harms women. True and real harm. It just cannot be regulated and controlled because it is illegal.
You weigh that as less important than a theoretical harm coming to men based on your theory that a significant amount of them do not have the self-control to use their brain.
Yes. It does. Their choice though. Not mine. What part of that aren't you understanding?
This story talks about crime rings and something should be done about that, but that doesn't mean we legalize prostitution just to make it safe for the women who choose to be whores to make a living. I don't care that they get hurt anymore than I care about a soldier dying in battle. Is it tragic? Yes. Did they know it might happen going in? Yes.
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But in that case, they could just as well be internet-porn-addicted or alcoholics or druggies. Responsibility is a big part of life, the kind of responsibility every adult person - male or female - should be able to exert in order to be allowed to roam the planet freely and not be institutionalized as a danger to themselves.
Responsibility is a big part of life. That's why I'm glad our politicians are responsible about this decision.
Let me ask you this.... do you think it is more likely that prostitution will be legalized now that there are more women in office, or less likely? You're in the vast minority on this issue, though it may not look like it on this particular board. The more women we have in office, the less likely this will ever be taken seriously.
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I asked if you're not ashamed to describe all men as gibbering idiots.
Since you implied in your assertion that the legal offer of sex on sale would turn a significant number of them into instant-addicts without free will and that therefor prostitutes are better of suffering unprotected by the law.
I already answered yes and yes, so this is twice now that I have no Idea why you're even bringing this up. If you really want links to stuff I can show you. I personally know a woman who makes over $20,000.00 a month using men who actually have purchased blackmail applications from her and given her all of their personal infomation as well as their friends and families personal information. Nothing illegal about what she's doing either becau
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Quote:Completely my fault, I should have directed the statement.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Okay... I did see that. I didn't know it was directed towards me. My bad.
Quote:I've not heard of anything of the sort. Last I checked Cannabis's legalisation didn't cause the entire Dutch population to become Heroin addicts either.
I don't know anything about that situation in Amsterdam, but I would be willing to bet there are problems of that sort there.
Quote:And here was me thinking you favoured freedom of choice, minimum to no government intervention and personal responsibility. You don't get to be freedom of choice and dictate what those choices are, you don't get to be anti-government intervention then demand legal intervention in choices you don't like, and you don't get to expect personal responsibility while expecting prostitutes to take responsibility for their clients actions and decisions.
There are countless people out there with serious internet porn addictions because it's available. I don't know about you, but I think that sex and women in general can be much more addictive than either of these and if it's a guaranteed thing with no repercussions, aside from the inevetability that you will go broke if you can't control yourself, well.... that's a can of worms I believe is best left unopened, and mankind will be better for it.
Quote:Not really, because the meth-amphetamine and the Heroin aren't people that suffer hardships because of their illegality, and they are substances that cause measurable harm to those that indulge, they are, in a very really sense, a completely different thing entirely. If Burkas to Prostitutes is Apples to Oranges Prostitutes to Drugs is Oranges to Orang-utans.
I guess I will be the one to say that if we legalize prostitution, we may as well just legalize crack and meth and herion and whatever new designer drugs they make.
Quote:I've given clear reasoning. I have not twisted what you said, despite protestations to the contrary.
In this regard, I don't think your parallel to burkas is accurate at all.
Now correct me if anywhere I get you're position wrong:
You think prostitution should be illegal because if it is legal Men won't be able to control themselves and will be off fornicating with prostitutes like a rampant rabbit after an overdose of Viagra eventually making themselves bankrupt (and rather sore I suspect).
Now, surely the suggestion is that Women's behaviour needs to be moderated lawfully because otherwise Men will not be able to control themselves? I can't for the life of me see how this is not a relevant conclusion to come too.
Also if you or anyone else thinks I'm getting the idea behind the Burka wrong please correct me:
The Burka is worn because it's believed that men will not be able to control their carnal desires and thoughts if there is naked female flesh about (you know like an ankle or forearm or something, those cheeky little minxes) so must be covered up at all times when in public.
Again, surely the suggestion is that Women's behaviour needs to be moderated lawfully because otherwise Men will not be able to control themselves?
Perhaps there is a parallel there, but you aren't prepared to accept it? Or perhaps you just haven't explained you're position very well thus causing confusion?
Quote:And I'm having a hard time right now giving a shit that you found what I see as the logical implications of your own statements as insulting. Frankly to me you're beginning to sound like the person who said “I'm not a racist but it's the blacks that are the fucking problem”.
I can see where if you word everything the right way, you can say something like that, but these are two totally seperate issues. I take offence to that remark and I don't give a shit if you say you didn't mean it as a jab. I am all for women's rights and your comment sarcastically says that I am not.
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If people seriously believe that you can draw real parallels (the kiNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Don't forget that the anti-smoking stance is not about the addiction itself, but the harm done to oneself, which leads to medical conditions that in many cases end up costing the state a lot, as well as (perhaps more importantly) the harm done to others by second-hand smoke.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I really hope you're all about smokers rights if this is your stance on prostitution.
Would smoking be a completely harmless addiction, many perople's stance wouldn't be against it, but it's not. On the other hand, legalised prostitution, if enforced properly, is harmless to the parties concerned.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
All I have to say is if you're going to take the freedom to do harm to yourself as you please, you had better be behind smoker's rights then.
Smokers' rights: Freedom to harm themselves. I got no problem with that.
NOT smokers' rights: Freedom to harm others through second-hand smoke. In all places but their own home and privately agreed places, I have no problem with smoking bans.
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You don't have proof of it because most of it is done in secret. If you haven't heard, 70% of the internet is porn. It is the single most lucrative business on the internet and one of the major reasons so many people have machines that they don't understand in their house today. It may not be all people, but if you think we live in a Disney world, you're living a dream.
Hey. Your presumption that I'm naively imagining the world to be happy and clean is seriously pissing me off. Quit that.
I KNOW that sex is a huge business. And I have given no indication that I do not know.
But you're just as deluded as you imply I am, if you think that everyone who consumes internet porn (or normal porn) is in acute danger of addiction.
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I'll come right out and say that I haven't had a serious girlfriend for years. I won't blame this on the internet. I don't want the hassle anymore and as much as I can't stand being around them after the novelty wears off, I've hurt women emotionally more than I'd care to admit. I don't want to do that anymore. The internet makes romance very easy to avoid 99% of the time.
That's wonderful for you. How is this relevant to the subject?
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This story talks about crime rings and something should be done about that, but that doesn't mean we legalize prostitution just to make it safe for the women who choose to be whores to make a living. I don't care that they get hurt anymore than I care about a soldier dying in battle. Is it tragic? Yes. Did they know it might happen going in? Yes.
The difference, of course, being that violence and killing is a legitimate part of war.
Rape and violence and murder are not legitimate parts of anything, prostitution or not. Sex for money is prostitution. The violence, rape, murder and drugs that surround it are down the its illegality and the way it prevents regulation.
Quite simply, I think it's wrong to make prostitution illegal because a) it's obviously not working and causes more harm than good and b) a woman or a man should have the right to sell sex if they want to.
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Let me ask you this.... do you think it is more likely that prostitution will be legalized now that there are more women in office, or less likely? You're in the vast minority on this issue, though it may not look like it on this particular board. The more women we have in office, the less likely this will ever be taken seriously.
Because women don't take prostitution seriously? Right.
What's your point with this, though, I wonder. Women in politics haven't yet tackled the subject so this means you must be right, or what?
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I already answered yes and yes, so this is twice now that I have no Idea why you're even bringing this up. If you really want links to stuff I can show you.
Relevant, legitimate statistics that prove that legal prostitution is harmful to men to a degree that the world is better off with illegal prostitution? Bring it on.
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I personally know a woman who makes over $20,000.00 a month using men who actually have purchased blackmail applications from her and given her all of their personal infomation as well as their friends and families personal information. Nothing illegal about what she's doing either because it's consentual blackmail. Trust me.... I know MUCH more about this than you know or then I probably should. I'm not making this up.
I'm not accusing you of making this up. But I do think that you are taking one or more extrem
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
And here was me thinking you favoured freedom of choice, minimum to no government intervention and personal responsibility. You don't get to be freedom of choice and dictate what those choices are, you don't get to be anti-government intervention then demand legal intervention in choices you don't like, and you don't get to expect personal responsibility while expecting prostitutes to take responsibility for their clients actions and decisions.
You know Cit... I thought a lot about this over the weekend and I've come to the conclusion, even before I read this post, that you're right. I seriously think that legislation to legalize the prostitution trade will have devistating consequences to society as we know it, but I can't in good conscience continue the stance that I've taken here. This is contradictory to any argument I've had against Government playing nanny and I am forced to take it back.
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Not really, because the meth-amphetamine and the Heroin aren't people that suffer hardships because of their illegality, and they are substances that cause measurable harm to those that indulge, they are, in a very really sense, a completely different thing entirely. If Burkas to Prostitutes is Apples to Oranges Prostitutes to Drugs is Oranges to Orang-utans.
Well... we shall see, but I strongly believe that there will be dire consequences by legalizing prostitution and then we will see that legal or not, prostitution hurts people (and not just the women who are being taken advantage of now). These maladies may not be physical (entirely physical) or immediately noticible upon sight, but they will be there nonetheless, eating away at society like a cancer. I wonder how many "happily" married politicians will have their careers either shot or owned by somebody else when their prostitution records are used as blackmail against them... you know there will be detailed records of any transaction of this type. Of course, by then it will be legal so nobody should mind if families are ruined by prostitution because if it is not illegal in the first place then it can't be bad. But we know that this won't be the case and people always tend to hold politicians to a higher code of ethics than the proles, lest they get the "Governor Gray Davis" treatment and find Vin Disel sitting in their seat before their term is up. (Aside: Why oh why can't we impeach Bush?)
I still feel there is a huge difference between the Burka and prostitution. I am all for women getting ahead. I don't appreciate the implications that I'm racist either. This particular topic hits very close to home for me and as I said before, you can't label this black and white. I think it is bad what happens to women in this "trade", and something surely needs to be done, but I don't feel that unleashing something so potentially devistating on the public is a healthy alternative. There at least needs to be some serious debate about the pros and cons of such an action and how it can alter many aspects of our lives. A responsible decision needs to be made here, not one made of emotions and male-hating feminism. Again.... we'll see what happens if anybody can actually curry enough political support for this issue to even be considered.
I was going to reply to the rest of your comments, but considering my change of view here, I don't really feel any of it is necessary. I just want you to respect that I still have serious reservations about this and it concerns me a great deal, but in the interest of the bigger picture I can't be against legalized prostitution simply on principal. Individual choice and responsibility are more important, and you're right, I can't change my stance when it suits me. If men, including myself, chose to let an evil and heartless woman ruin their lives, financially and otherwise, they have nobody to blame but themselves.
And to anybody with unconstitutional words about the smoking issue:
Come and talk to me about pollution and second hand smo
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I'm disappointed Cit. I surely thought you'd have something more to say about this matter. Did you lose interest?
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:Actually I do have something else to say, not much since there's not much debate left when the other side says "You know I agree", but I'm kinda busy so the reply is on a list of things somewhere beneth "ring estate agent as to the reasons they haven't got back to me about my offer on that flat".
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I'm disappointed Cit. I surely thought you'd have something more to say about this matter. Did you lose interest?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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That's the cit I know. Full of wit and sarcasm. Color me non-disappointed now!
Well, I do agree with you. On a technicality. Albeit a very important one which trumped any arguement I could make about my feelings on this case. Thanks for pointing that out to me, just in case I hadn't been letting that contradiction with my core values eat away at me all weekend. (It really did..... sometimes I really shock myself with the the depths of which my pathetic-ness can reach)
So..... I did say that I cannot argue about legislation governing personal freedoms. But I never changed my stance on what the consequences of these actions could mean for our future. Would you be willing to admit that there is at least a possibility that there could be very real effects caused by the legalization of prostitution on say family life for example? What of my referencing blackmail? Of course if you legalized prostitution, the government would have to make and enforce a hundred other laws regarding things such as:
Who is eligible to have sex?
How much can be charged for sex?
What the government will take as "income" tax?
What the government will take as "use" tax?
How long will it take the government to go from saying it's perfectly okay to have sex with a hooker to turning on it like they did cigarettes? You know, not making it illegal, but continually raising the taxes on it until it eats up a good portion of the john's income while the hooker doesn't even see a dime of it?
What social programs would the taxes be used to pay for?
Would the taxes be used to pay down the national debt?
Who will protect these women in leiu of a pimp because these women will still find themselves in dangerous situations whether it's legal or not?
If videotape is used to document any possible abuse either way, who gets to see it?
Will we put the pimps on unemployment or jail or will they become the hookers "legal" guardians?
What is the punishment for abusing a hooker?
What is the punishment, if any, for a hooker taking a man for everything he is worth?
What are the rules surronding a married man or woman and using a hooker's services?
Will using a hooker's services, which would now be legal, be grounds for divorce?
Who will have access to the medical records of hookers and johns?
How long will these medical records be kept on file?
Do you get frequent flyer miles?
Will hookers be able to do things like, go to a church or the movie theatre dressed like a hooker and try to pick up johns?
Will hookers be able to advertize on TV like a phone sex line or Girls Gone Wild?
If so, what hours of the day and on which stations would they be allowed to advertise?
If a hooker can advertise, and even more, go out into neighborhoods to seduce johns, and she starts seducing husbands and ruins their marriages, and the wife retaliates by say, killing the hooker, will the charges against her be as serious as if she just chopped up the next door neighbor with an axe because her rose garden was nicer?
If the hooker blackmails the john, what protection will the government offer the john? Afterall, this is completely legal now.
There are a million more questions to ask, but I don't think I need to be the only one coming up with them. This is a very serious topic and I feel that these questions warrant answering. If the governments we have decided to just one day legalize prostitution I can guarantee that each of these questions will come up and there will be lawsuits and murder trials at some point. To what extent? I couldn't say. Maybe not nearly as bad as I think, but it will happen. Stranger shit happens every day for no reason at all.
The point is, these are just some of the many issues that will come up and I think that this foresight is much more valuable beforehand, rather than just making it legal because hookers got it bad. I'm not trying to downplay the terrible way these women get treated today, but I'm just trying to illustrate that this is not a simple black and white issue that s
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Do you get frequent flyer miles?
ROFLMAO
I'd say unionize them, with a madam who is retired from active service vetting the clients and keeping things in order, muchlike the setup in "Heart of Gold".
In spite of current illegality, many of the "Blue Light" facilities on the east coast do a pretty good job of self-regulation as it is, in all honesty.
Yes there may be some social consequences, but life is a dangerous place, and the trouble with any kind of prohibition is generally the same, increased crime, violence and danger.
The benefits of legalization outweigh the risks, as they often do, and personal responsibility is a far better bulwark than laws designed to protect us from ourselves.
Now where did I put my floor-length mink and walkin stick....
-Mac Daddy Frem
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