The Saddest Calvin and Hobbes Sketch Ever
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Saturday, March 3, 2007 14:12
VIEWED: 22603
PAGE 14 of 16
Quote:Don't we all impose our "things" on our children?
Originally posted by SignyM:
Fredg- CTS is imposing her "thing" on her children. I suppose that's the parent's perogative but it may not be the best thing for her children.
I'm sure you don't ask your kids if they want to get the MMR shot or not. You just tell them they're going to do it.
We all love our kids and do what we think is best. We care enough to be concerned when we think other parents are not doing what we think is best. But until a certain threshold is crossed, we respect the boundaries of parental autonomy, even if other people's practices make us uncomfortable.
The problem is, that threshold is different for different folks. I'm sure there are people whose thresholds are stampeded by my giving birth at home, not vaccinating, and using alternative medicine.
I try to give others the benefit of the doubt and the respect for parental autonomy that I want to receive myself.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
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Quote:Good studies on humans are really hard to come by.
Originally posted by SignyM:
So here we have a poorly designed study done by a non-USA University, criticized by the supplement industry (not that they have a POV or anything) and by certain researchers, and defended by other researchers who may have an anti-supllement bias.
I don't take a lot of supplements. As a rule, I like what that guy said, "get your nutrients from your food." I do supplement occasionally with EPA's and other oils and extra vitamin C. And of course, prenatal vitamins. But I don't bother with Vit E, A, and stuff like this. It's all a crapshoot.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
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Quote:You are truly misunderstanding me. Just ask Geezer, Auraptor, Finn, or Hero if I have "faith" in government! Hell, I don't even have "faith" in technology! I understand that science is limited by our imagination, and guided by our prejudices. Why do you put people in boxes?
I don't know if this is what you're looking for. If you are asking if I too use "faith" in my risk assessments, the answer is "Sure, I do." I just have faith in different things. My post about your faith in govt authority wasn't intended to be negative or condescending, as in "you're superstitious and I'm not." It was to point out that you have faith in govt
Quote:I think this is where we differ. At one point, I questioned whether the universe existed. My decision to move forward as if it did was a decision based on an assumption because, philosophically, you can't prove that it does.
I have faith in other things. Remember I am a person of faith, so I don't see faith as a bad thing.
Quote:Are you citing the government to prove your point? I have no faith in FDA oversight of supplements and alternative medicine since their regulations in that arena are extremely weak.
Homeopathic remedies are licensed and approved by the FDA for OTC use.
AFA succussion- nonetheless, when a bottle of water is succussed, you are also increasing the potency of whatever ELSE happens to be in the water. N'est pas?
I place homeopathy near the bottom of my list because of it's hit-and-miss (at best) effectiveness. For issues that don't need treatment right away, fine. But playing around with treatments that require such lengthy experimentation may delay implementing an effective cure when time is of the essence. Like praying over a child with a burst appendix.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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One of the strongest arguments for acupuncture is that it works on animals. For example, operations have been done on animals using acupuncture. And animals would express that type of pain very clearly if they were feeling it. (They do instinctively hide chronic pain and illness.) OTOH 'dummy' acupuncture (in non-conventional spots) also works. So while I tend to think acupuncture works, I don't buy into the chi/ meridians philosophy behind it.
If homeopathy were shown to work on animals in some unambiguous way, similarly to acupuncture, I think that would be a strong argument in its favor. Such studies which you would think are easily funded - and much more ethical than experimenting on humans - would, you suspect, be the FIRST thing to do. But these studies haven't been done.
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Ok, that's enough.
What part of someone doing what they feel is right offends you to the point where you feel the pressing need to lay siege to it ?
I've overlooked a lot Rue, cause most of the time you make decent points, but this has gotten ludicrous, no matter how CTS tries to state her own, personal conclusions which she's not demanding anyone share, or even necessarily agree with, you just keep right on doing your all-fired best to ram your viewpoint down her throat.
Stop it.
I could care less what someone believes as long as they do not feel the need to inflict it upon me, and people do what they feel indivually is right, whether or not the rest of the world agrees with them.
What you are doing here, although worded better, is no better than SixStrings unfortunate and unwarranted bashing of TWG, ain't no reason nor cause for it, and it's time to just agree to disagree.
Neither one of you is gonna convince the other, because both alternative and conventional medicine have some pretty serious flaws, which have been thrashed over on this issue many many times with no respite in sight.
"Praying over a child with a burst appendix" is to my mind not one whit better than medicating them for a real world problem (See Above) that no one wants to address or deal with, or trying to exorcise a case of epilepsy, people do what they do, it's not for us to live or run other folks lives for them.
I think both cases have been stated as completely as possible, and at this point it's naught but thinly veiled hostility making the arguments, and if people not living life the way YOU think they should offends you to this point...
I dunno what to say... that mindset scares me more than anything else I've seen in this thread, because it's a very slippery slope in that respect.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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FremD
To what are you referring?
When I address CTS I write her name at the top - and yes, I tell her what I think. When I address a topic I generally don't write a name at the top.
My last post I thought was topical. All I did was point out that while there was good evidence for accupuncture, there was no such evidence for homeopathy. Is pointing out facts 'bashing'? When did that happen?
added: Oh, I see. The 'praying over a child ...' wasn't my post.
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Frem, I feel a bit "bashed" by CTS myself. HER hostility is out there for everyone to see. She's injected snark and ad hominem where it has no business belonging and I've had to take deep breaths not to respond in kind, and by-and-large I think I've succeeded despite provocation. She has mischaracterized me in so many ways I don't know where to start...
Now, if YOU need official endorsement before trying treatments, that is your choice to make (No, I don't)
...you still want to accuse me of sundry hypocrisies... (I didn't)
.. It was to point out that you have faith in govt (I don't, as I think you and everyone else on the board realizes)
AFA praying over a child with a burst appendix... that was just an example of the far end of the spectrum. At that point, someone SHOULD interfere because the child has rights beyond being the parent's property.
Mostly, if you read my posts, I ask CTS questions like: How does homeopathy work? How do you evaluate risk? Is that "bashing"? If it is, then I wish to be "bashed" in that fashion.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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I was going to post that myself. Frem, my problem with CTS is that she lies and manipulates.
Her VERY FIRST post on this thread was an at-length ad hominem attack on anyone who doesn't think the way she does. She ended the post saying "THEY will always attack". (In fact, the FIRST ad hominem attack was posted by 6-string.) I don't know why YOU have no problem with 6-string's and CTS's unprovoked ad hominem attacks but have such a grotch when people merely respond in kind.
I have no problem with what she believes. (Well, I do to the extent she is endangering the life of her son who has a life-threatening illness which she claims to not be medically treating.) I DO have a problem with her lies and manipulations.
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I also wanted to point out that SignyM has a child with an extremely rare neurological problem - one for which there is no known cause and no known cure - and which always ends up with 'basket case' results (unable to speak, walk, feed themselves).
SignyM has been pushing from the very first for treatment - ALL of which is experimental - with skeptical doctors and institutions, been in international contact with researchers, and traveled all over the US for care.
For CTS to say: "Now, if YOU need official endorsement before trying treatments, that is your choice to make" is an ad hominem attack of the worst kind, made out of complete ignorance and sheer viciousness.
And KUDOS to SignyM for not responding to those attacks and TRYING to keep the thread topical.
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Yeah, I kind of ground on that for a while. It really pissed me off.
Frem ... FYI we've tried brushing therapy, bovine colostrum, immunoglobulin, the ketogenic diet, antivirals, various supplements and vitamins, LOTS of TLC, as well as anticonvulsants and immune suppressants. All in all we've tried about two-dozen things. The therapy that worked (steroids) was communicated to me by another parent by email. A testimonial if you will, and I had to push HARD to get a doctor's response. I've learned a lot along the way, things that no doctor or study will ever teach you.
And Rue, I'm glad you brought up CTS' son. There is more at stake than a brilliant but distractable daughter. Like all complicated children being treated by non-mainstream means I continue to think of him, and I continue to hope he's doing well.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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