The Saddest Calvin and Hobbes Sketch Ever
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Saturday, March 3, 2007 14:12
VIEWED: 22603
PAGE 8 of 16
(Ok... this started as a reply and wound up something else, yeah, but it's worth the reading..)
Fred..
You mean little miss defiance ? I've known here since she was about 10, but she's 16 now, and it's prettymuch too late for that family - the son's run off to somewhere and is laying low, trying to overcome his problems and run something resembling a normal life, been tryin to get him into college but he's still struggling with the damage to his psyche of decades of emotional beatdown.. he's coming along and I have hope for him yet, but not a great deal of it given how badly he's coping at this time.
Lil miss defiance ran off to hang out with the friends most hated by her parents without thinking or caring they might have some real and valid reasons to dislike them, and the endless party circuit will probably absorb her, chew her up and spit the remains out, because there's no authority figure she respects at all other than me, and I simply cannot ride herd over her cause she's not my kid, and one can't run other peoples lives for them and still run their own.
I hate watching this garbage, the life-destroying fallout from what I refer to as adversarial parenting of the type taught by folk like Dobson and Esso, where the child is treated as an opponent or enemy to be crushed and defeated rather than loved and nutured, but beyond being a voice of concern and wisdom there's not very bloody much I can do about it when the parents won't listen to reason... I know it's not really "my problem" and all that, but once these damaged-goods kids make it into society, as often as not pitched out the door by the now-frustrated parents, too early, with no proper life skills, no decent contacts or prospects and inadequate employment, and mostly fall into the slow self-destruction of working multiple bottom end jobs right into unrecoverable debt, drug use and criminal activity... followed soon by death from suicide, overdose or violence.
At some point, I think that's everyones problem, one of the root causes of the general social malady that is so destructive emotionally to one and all.
Watching it happen over and over again, it grates on me, what we do to our youth in the name of parenting and education is often so horrific the scars last forever, and having shiny things and a nice house and a family they will eventually destroy in the same fashion just puts a pretty gloss over the nightmare.
I have seen the enemy, and he is us.
Those parents, teachers, and bystanders who step up and try to love and nurture instead of crush and destroy are the real heros of our society, and all they usually get for it is scorned and ridiculed.
It's not just one thing, but the medication issue ties into all the rest, as one of the roots that feed this tree of evil, which is why I am so passionate about it.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
some people have chemical imbalances that require correction through meds.
I would say some people have chemical imbalances that CAN be corrected by meds. Meds is only one of several possible solutions. My position is that medication is not necessarily the BEST of those several possible solutions simply because medical and govt authorities say it is.
Quote:
What you and 6 seem to be saying is that under no circumstances should anyone enter "the system" and become a "slave to the pharmaceutical companies". That drugs are an abomination!
To clarify, I do not make that judgment for anyone else but myself and my family. *I* would not want to become dependent on medication, when there are quite a number of other alternatives, but that is ME. Everyone needs to make this choice for him or herself. THAT is my view.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
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Quote:You must have misunderstood me. I never said zero psychiatry for kids. And btw, I have worked in mental hospitals so I am quite familiar with serious mental illness, both as a professional and as a family member of someone who has paranoid schizophrenia.
Originally posted by Malbadinlatin:
After that you'd probably sing a different tune about zero psychaitric for kids, also you're not a doctor... are you?.
Quote:And that is her choice to make. If it were me, or my sister, I would look for non-dependency inducing alternatives. But that's me.
They get her back to square one, AND she needs them, as a result she is dependant, but it's a hell of alot better than KRAZY WHOO HOO.
Psychiatry is one solution of several possible solutions. But our medical and govt authorities tell us that psychiatry is the ONLY and BEST solution to serious, organic mental illness. That is what I don't buy. That is what everyone else believes. That is where we disagree.
And it's ok that we disagree. I have no wish to force my views on anyone else. I hope that clarifies where I stand.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
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Quote:There are no guarantees in life. Every choice is ultimately a gamble of risk vs. benefit.
Originally posted by SignyM:
But if your skepticism is unbridgeable by ANY level of evidence then you're delusional. So- are you such committed "do-it-yourselfers" that you refuse ALL intervention?
To calculate the odds, we rely on "evidence." Here is where the debate starts, I believe. What evidence, and whose evidence? And how do we weigh each piece of evidence? For many people, the fact that the CDC, FDA, and AMA say something is so is evidence enough. And it is their prerogative to think so if they choose.
For me, endorsements or denouncements by medical and govt authorities carry no weight. I need to look at the original published research, and decide for myself if their conclusions are supported by the actual data. Many times, I have found that their studies are so flawed that their conclusions are unsupported. I then look at arguments against those conclusions, and read their data. I usually arrive at very different conclusions than those of authorities.
I don't accept or reject anything categorically. Not even vaccines. Every solution proposed by authorities is indeed a solution, including vaccines. I have just concluded, more times than not, that those solutions are usually not the BEST solutions, let alone the only solutions. There are alternatives to vaccination, for example, that I believe are safer and more effective in preventing disease. So I calculate the odds, weigh the risks vs. benefits for each product, and make my choice. It is not an ideological demonization of all things endorsed by medicine or government, or a blind embrace of all things rejected by medicine/govt.
Sometimes antibiotics are the best option (as in lowest risk for highest benefit), and sometimes they aren't. Sometimes pain killers are the best option, sometimes they aren't. When it is the best option (as I decide, not as the doctor decides since his authority carries no weight with me), I use it. That's how it works. For the most part, I tend to find emergency and trauma medicine useful (benefits worth the risk), and the rest of modern medicine not worth the risks. That doesn't mean I never take Benadryl or Aspirin.
I tend to favor solutions that don't include lifelong dependence, be it mainstream or alternative. I once used a chiropractor who believed people should get continuously realigned weekly for the rest of their lives. I stopped going immediately. People who preach dependence on any product, be it mainstream or alternative, don't sit well with me. I once bought a supplement called Noni juice from a salesperson who said she had never known anyone to quit buying Noni juice. I never bought from her again, and rarely tried Noni juice after that.
When it comes to psychotropic meds, I think MOST times they aren't the best option. Psychoactive drugs have a tendency to create dependence, either psychological or physical or both. To me, that is a risk/cost that outweighs the benefits.
The thing is though, I don't force my evaluation of the evidence on anyone else. My conclusions are for me and my family alone. I think that is my right to think for myself and decide for myself.
Everyone else can act on his/her own assumptions and values. As you know, I am pro-choice on everything.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
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Quote:I think you and 6ix have a point here.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
At some point, I think that's everyones problem, one of the root causes of the general social malady that is so destructive emotionally to one and all.
However, I think medical treatment choices are very complicated, and sometimes, people simply don't have the emotional or financial resources to swim against the current to seek better, but more difficult alternatives.
For me, the solution is not asking parents not to drug their kids, but to encourage the use of alternatives. If those alternatives are accessible and effective, more people will use them on their own.
Alternative medicine is now a rapidly growing industry, despite the heavy propaganda from the establishment. I think it is because more and more people are becoming more and more disenchanted and are exploring taking care of themselves. If we can deregulate medicine to open a true free market, I believe the better solutions will become more accessible and less people will rely on drug dependence.
In other words, I tend to blame the state-supported medical/pharmaceutical monopoly rather than the folks who give in to the brainwashing. Most times, they are suffering and are just trying to stay afloat the best they know how with the lifesavers thrown to them. They don't know that they can learn to swim, and swim to shore. I don't think that is their fault, really, when they've been told there is no other way out from birth.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
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CTS- I think Frem was talking about non-abusive, non-authoritian parenting as being "the problem".
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Thanks for the correction, SignyM.
I thought this kid was drugged by the parents. But upon closer reading, Frem is objecting to their authoritarian parenting style. So, uh, my comments don't apply to the problem Frem was describing. Sorry Frem.
They do apply to 6ix's overall objections of the overuse of drugs, though. (I think.)
Actually, this does tie in somewhat with the ADHD overdiagnosis problem. When kids don't meet parental expectations, many parents see it as "the kid's problem." So the solution they seek is to "fix the kid." They drag the kid to the doctor's office like bringing a car to the mechanic. They look for a "disorder" for what's "wrong" with the kid, which absolves them of any fault or hard work to change themselves.
I have a kid who is very emotionally high maintenance, and who acts like a distracted tornado. She meets all criteria for a dx of ADHD. I could VERY easily slap a label on her and put her on drugs. Fix "her" problem, just like that.
I have, instead, chosen to use occupational therapy, gymnastics and as much physical activity as I can squeeze in, a flexible learning environment tailored just for her through homeschooling, and using the label "spirited" instead of "hyperactive." I think it is important for her to know there is nothing wrong with her, that she is different, but not defective. She has to find ways to accommodate her differences, but that doesn't mean she has to suppress her energy level.
It's a different perspective, and one that other parents are embracing as well. Just because one is statistically uncommon, and doesn't fit well in society, doesn't mean you have a "disorder."
Homosexuality used to be a psychiatric disorder, but is now accepted as a statistically uncommon, but normal human condition. Being profoundly gifted usually makes one ill-fitted in society, but profound intelligence is not seen as a "disorder." There are many people in the deaf community who believe deafness is not a "disorder" or disability. They feel like foreigners in the hearing world, speaking their own language--but in their "home" country of the deaf community, they are not impaired at all.
There is something to be said for not rushing to "fix the kid," but adapting one's own habits and lifestyle to accommodate a child's individuality.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
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at the danger of getting into the same argument we did over vaccinations can I make a suggestion that you're going to get over medication while medication is a source of revenue?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.
Originally posted by citizen:
at the danger of getting into the same argument we did over vaccinations can I make a suggestion that you're going to get over medication while medication is a source of revenue?
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
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Quote:I'm asking if you think making public health a buisness is responcible for the uniquely American dependence on mass medication?
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.
Originally posted by citizen:
at the danger of getting into the same argument we did over vaccinations can I make a suggestion that you're going to get over medication while medication is a source of revenue?
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME