ADHD.... Real disorder, or clever way to get us all on pills for life?
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Saturday, February 24, 2007 12:03
VIEWED: 8797
PAGE 5 of 10
Quote:Did you check the source Signy? It seems fishy.
Originally posted by SignyM:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Children of mothers who ate more fish and other seafood while pregnant are smarter and have better developmental skills than kids of women who ate less or none, researchers said on Thursday in findings they called surprising.
*They don't call me "Easy Joke Chrisisall" for nuthin'
*I read that consuming fish oils can take care of very mild ADHD....
The Chrisisall from Atlantis
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Aw hell, and here I was gonna go back to lurking cause of the extremely polarized hostility here and y'all had to go and get all reasonable and rational on me.
Well we can go back to be irrational and hostile if you want us to
, I think if you wait for a few minutes...
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Quote:I don’t want to appear insensitive to other people’s problems. I realize that a lot people take this very seriously, and I’m not necessarily saying that it’s not a serious thing. What I’m saying is it doesn’t appear to be something that rises to the level of a disease. Some people are assholes, and that kind of thing can seriously impair a person’s ability to function, both socially and at work. My cousin recently got fired essentially for being an asshole. But assholism is not a disease; I would consider it a serious problem, but it’s not a disease. And I’m not saying or implying in any way that people diagnosed with ADHD are assholes, I’m simply pointing out that extreme personality traits do not a disease make. I also realize that the experts, perhaps most or all of them, disagree with me; although at least one expert on the subject that I know of is an idiot. You’ll have to take what I say on this matter with a grain of salt, because I’m not an expert, I have my experiences and this is the impression that I have. That’s all.
Originally posted by fredgiblet:Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
When you consider the symptoms: impulsivity, inattention and hyperactivity – these are not necessarily symptoms of any disease; they are traits that everyone shares, just like a sense of humor, courage or shyness. Hell, these are traits that some people try to foster.
Certainly, but when they are outside the human norm then it is a disorder, just like diabetes or giantism, you just can't see it as easily. So then the question is it causing problems? If yes then does the detriment of the medication outweigh the benefit?
I think Signym point of nutritional deficiencies being a culprit is a salient one. Poor nutrition plays a big roll in most people’s personality, far more so then most people realize, I think. For instance, dehydration is a common cause of chronic headaches that can lead people to be very irritable. Just drinking more water in a day can make you a nicer and more productive person.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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I'm not in the mood, nor do I have the time to rehash the science good/bad debate here. I think we're very close to agreement about a lot of that but there are some fundamental differences in our views that aren't going to change so I'm opting not to split those hairs with you all. This is a dead end, and I'm not going to take the bait.
For now, I'll just ask you if you think that PAX from Serenety is any good indication of where we're heading. Are we, as human beings who aren't known for our good judgement, bound to find ourselves in a PAX/AI/Terminator 2/Matrix type future, even though we have all of the warnings out there already about being responsible with our use of science? People want to take away gun ownership rights because there are a few careless and unscrupulous people who do wrong with them. I think if anything we've agreed that science is a gun. Science is a very powerful thing that can be used to help and protect the human race, prolong life, and raise the quality of life for all if in the right hands and used for good, but a double edged sword which so often in our lifetimes has been responsible for cancer, birth defects and holocausts. Sadly, the people who fund and, in essence, own science so often tend to be the latter. I'm not saying we need to "take science away", but considering how powerful it is, I would feel safer if I knew somebody I trusted more than your governments or mine were the ones who ran it.
The warnings I mentioned above, of course, consist not only of the great sci fi novels we've all read or blockbuster Hollywood movies, but warnings from thousands of years ago such as Revelations which said that we would all live in a one world government (The UN) and all listen to one leader who will be able to communicate with every person on the planet (wireless, satellite, computers), and we'll all be unable to work/eat without the mark of the beast (cashless, credit-based society anyone?). I can't say for sure because I've never read about it, but I would imagine that Christianity is not the only religion with such a grim outlook on the future.
Again, I reiterate, I am not a religious man. I am, however, pretty well read in things that interest me and the Bible's predictions of the future in Revelations enthrall me. I can't seem to get my head around some of the undeniable coincidences when compared to our current state of affairs. Anyone who actually reads any of my posts knows that I am not a believer in coincidence, so not being a religious man either I find myself in quite a conundrum.
I believe the stage is set. I think we're too smart for our own good. IMHO we have far too much power with far too little knowledge and common sense and foresight to back it up. I'll even give you that it wasn't the scientist's intent in his/her heart to create the devices which will enslave/destroy us, but as my Gram says, the path to hell was paved with good intentions.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:Sometimes it is. Narsassistic Personality Disorder essentially means someone acts like an arsehole but is nonetheless a disease, or disorder, either way.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Some people are assholes, and that kind of thing can seriously impair a person’s ability to function, both socially and at work. My cousin recently got fired essentially for being an asshole. But assholism is not a disease; I would consider it a serious problem, but it’s not a disease.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I'm not in the mood, nor do I have the time to rehash the science good/bad debate here. I think we're very close to agreement about a lot of that but there are some fundamental differences in our views that aren't going to change so I'm opting not to split those hairs with you all. This is a dead end, and I'm not going to take the bait.
So instead of backing up an indefensible position you are just going to dodge the arguement? Alright works for me.
Quote:
For now, I'll just ask you if you think that PAX from Serenety is any good indication of where we're heading.
Not in our lifetimes, probably not in our childrens or grandchildrens. Honestly I think by the time we get to that stage we will have already proven Einstein right "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
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Are we, as human beings who aren't known for our good judgement, bound to find ourselves in a PAX/AI/Terminator 2/Matrix type future, even though we have all of the warnings out there already about being responsible with our use of science?
Yes, no matter what we do to "Science" we will find a way to self destruct, it's in our nature.
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People want to take away gun ownership rights because there are a few careless and unscrupulous people who do wrong with them. I think if anything we've agreed that science is a gun.
No, guns exist for only one purpose, shooting things. There is legitimate purposes for shooting things, but all to often people use guns for non-legitimate purposes. OTOH science has a vast array of uses, most of which are incapable of harming anyone even accidentally. As a side note, I am pro-gun control, but anti-gun-ban, I think that a society void of weaons is just asking for trouble, but at the same time heavy machine guns shouldn't be sold on street corners.
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Science is a very powerful thing that can be used to help and protect the human race, prolong life, and raise the quality of life for all if in the right hands and used for good, but a double edged sword which so often in our lifetimes has been responsible for cancer, birth defects
True, but if you want to talk numbers... Science has done far more good than bad in the cancer and birth defect areas, more people get cancer now than before because they live long enough. Cancer is inevitable, it's just a question of if you live lng enough to get it. As for birth defects science can be used to determine what is causing the birth defects and correct it.
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and holocausts.
???????????? I say again ??????????? what the hell are you talking about?
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Sadly, the people who fund and, in essence, own science so often tend to be the latter.
BS, the vast majority of science is beneficial to mankind. I'd like to see you prove this.
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I'm not saying we need to "take science away"
Maybe not explicitally but you are constantly on the verge of saying it.
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but considering how powerful it is, I would feel safer if I knew somebody I trusted more than your governments or mine were the ones who ran it.
Like who? This is a people problem not a science problem, power corrupts so whoever we put in charge will likely end up acting against your wishes. Besides that huge swaths of scientific research are in the hands of universities, and corporations instead of the government.
Quote:
but warnings from thousands of years ago such as Revelations which said that we would all live in a one world government (The UN) and all listen to one leader who will be able to communicate with every person on the planet (wireless, satellite, computers), and we'll all be unable to work/eat without the mark of the beast (cashless, credit-based society anyone?).
I fail to see what this has to do with science. The one world government thing is political and social in nature, not scientific. As for communication, if the other option
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I'm through arguing with you Fred. You are a bullheaded idiot. You miss my points entirely. You are quite a boring person, and a broken record to boot.
I think I'd have more luck getting through that tunnel-visioned head of yours if I stuck to 2 syllable words and only one thought per post. "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And now TWG shows up, who's basically a pavlovian trigger for random acts of kindness, not to mention having the same effect on grumpiness that sunlight has on vampires.
Well, that brightened the day for me.
Thank you, all of you, for the links and references. I'm always up for trying modifications in diet and habit. There are things I do that help. For instance, I keep a calendar...and it's always beeping at me. oi. Meds can get expensive.
That is an interesting idea about fish. I try to get as much omega3 as I can. I love fish and seafood. In fact, I eat a fairly balanced diet.
ADHD can be debilitating in some people. It is also a disorder that is often accompanied by something else. Comorbidity can cause misdiagnosis or poor treatment. For instance, if someone suffers from depression, treat that first and then treat the ADHD. Some disorders can look like ADHD early in diagnosis: Conduct Disorder, OCD, Bipolar and drug addiction just to name a few. Obviously treating an addict like she has ADHD won't help. However, a lot ADHD are addicts of some kind. They constantly try to find something to self medicate...but once again, you must treat the addict before you can treat the ADHD.
I guess Sixstring really just wants to know if we're overmedicating as a society. Perhaps. I don't know. Some doctors give out too much, some not enough. Do I think this will lead to a PAX event? No. Why? Because as much as I want to function like a normal human being, I want to be me. I want to keep my unique personality and outlook on life. I think that is true for most people. Call me an idealist, but I like to believe people will stand up for themselves and each other.
*cue new debate about the oppression of societies worldwide...
---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I'm through arguing with you Fred. You are a bullheaded idiot.
Likewise.
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You miss my points entirely.
Try explaining them then. What exactly is your point?
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and a broken record to boot.
I keep repeating myself because you keep repeating yourself, if you throw out a new argument, or bring some proof that science is really as bad as you say it is then I will not have to repeat myself. But all you do is say "science is bad" and throw out a bunch of things that can't be attributed to science, or are incorrect.
Quote:
I think I'd have more luck getting through that tunnel-visioned head of yours if I stuck to 2 syllable words and only one thought per post.
Actually I have one of the most extensive vocabularies of anyone I know (especially in my age group), and almost everyone who knows me personally thinks I'm very smart. I've spent many a night in extensive discussions with my friends about philosopy, governemnt, science, religion and the like, frequently in one discussion.
The issue at hand is that you are either unable or unwilling to articulate your points, and when I call you out on something that is incorrect like when you blame science for social or political problems you just shut down. Try giving me facts instead of unsubstantiated opinions and clearly articulating your points and we will see where things go.
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There is no possible way to win an arguement with you because you have the mighty infallible Science backing you. There is absolutely nothing that I can do to disrupt your love affair with Science and you will defend her to your death. I see no reason to take this conversation any further. "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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