ADHD.... Real disorder, or clever way to get us all on pills for life?
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Saturday, February 24, 2007 12:03
VIEWED: 8797
PAGE 3 of 10
Quote:That's what I used to tell my teachers when they asked me why I didn't "WANT" to remember my homework. Today I'd get drugs for that.
Originally posted by SignyM:
I think it's easy for people who're essentially "normal" to look at someone with a brain problem and think "Why don't they just....?" The answer is Because they can't
My point is that there's a line where on one side it's a simple life irritation as opposed to a full-blown and physically diagnosable brain problem on the other. Brain problems should be taken seriously and treated; forgetting homework and such should not be in the purview of physicians and therapists.
Just my- Oh look! Another bird! Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I have an even harder time believing this is true than I do that we all need mandatory vaccinations for whatever the disease of the day is. I've even seen advertisements on TV saying that 1 out of every 166 kids born has autism. AUTISM!!!!!
1 out of 166 have Autism!
Autism covers a very large swath of disorders, many of which are relatively mild. When you say Autism you are probably thinking of the mute, windowlicking kind of Autism, but milder forms (like Asperger's) are quite common.
Quote:
WTF? Man.... we keep letting science dictate our lives, especially considering they're always changing their minds anyways, we're all going to be on pills to modify our behavior from birth.
Other people have already mentioned this but I want to support it. Science and scientists are not at fault for this, corporations and capitalism are. Scientists are given a problem and they look for a solution, corporations want to make money off of the research that scientists do, the only way that drug companies can do that is by convincing people that they need the drugs that have just been developed. It is the same thing as when developers try to convince us that we really need a 10000 square foot house or car companies insist that a Navigator will make us happier.
As for your comment about changing their minds, you have used this before and it is still an inappropriate arguement, when new research is done or new effects discovered scientists alter their concliusions, it's the basis of science. If all scientists stayed the course no matter what new evidence came up we would still think that heavier-than-air flight was impossible.
Quote:
How about you tell me, once and for all, if milk from a cow is good for me or not before you start giving my baby anti-autism treatments... thanks.
The thing is that some food have detrimental effects, the question of whether they are still preferable depends on whether or not the detrimental effects are outweighed by the beneficial, opinions on this will vary.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that these kids are just the ones who would have been leaders of their smaller communities in days long gone.
ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed, but if the other option is to let my kids grow up to be political leaders (politicians), then I'm not so sure they aren't better off medicated
Quote:
who needs anybody that's got half a brain and a boatload of energy behind it anyhow?
The drug companies so that they can make new drugs?
Quote:
Wouldn't you rather just watch American Idol on your Prozac and not think about anything important at all?
I'll take the Prozac but I'll pass on American Idol thanks.
Quote:
I really can't see how indoctrination and behavior modification via science and medicine is any improvement for the human race over indoctrination via religion.
Perhaps because religion doesn't help sick people? Or maybe because religion pushes people to fanaticism, while drugs make them docile? Or maybe because science answers questions while religion avoids them?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I agree, and ...
what was I saying? 
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Nice post, Fred.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
MY ADHD went untreated until way past middle age. Except for a self-perception as a screw-up, I had enough brain power, and/or my ADHD wasn't bad enough, and/or my life situation was forgiving enough, that I muddled on through. But there were many times I literally could not read through a single sentence without getting derailed.
Then life got more demanding and I couldn't afford to spend the extra hours at work trying to get things done.
ADHD is real. If I could have 'made' it go away by willpower, I would have, and spared my self a world of hurt.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
1 out of 166 have Autism!
As someone else has mentioned, Autism includes many things. There are mild and severe cases. Until you've worked with these children, which I have, you have no idea the range and complexitites you can experience.
Quote:
They are the most intelligent and outside of the box thinkers mankind has to offer...
Why thank you.
Quote:
Aren't intelligent freethinkers boring anyhow with all their talk about things that can make your head hurt? Wouldn't you rather just watch American Idol on your Prozac and not think about anything important at all?
Not one person would ever call me boring. That sounds like an awful way to live...sedated on Prozac and watching reality tv. Ick. I'd rather be institutionalized than live like that.
Quote:
I really can't see how indoctrination and behavior modification via science and medicine is any improvement for the human race over indoctrination via religion.
Speaking as a religious person...How about all the war and death overzealous religions have caused?
I'm stepping outside my comfort zone here. You know I'm not up to the sparring standards in Real World discussions.
---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Must . .. .resist . . .urge . . . to post. Awww screw it. I'm sickof lurking for the last year. I used to be very mouthy on here, but haven't had time to be since I bcame a slave ..I mean mother.
Anyway, this is a very important issue to me. I have seen both sides of the coin, too.
I personally know an 11-year old with horrid grades that got straight A's after taking medication.
I also am married to someone who has ADHD before everyone else did. He was just told to sit down, shut up, and focus. His teacher would put a timer on his desk to make him do his work.
Now days, that teacher would have gotten in trouble, but my husband got his work done. He also got through childhood without medication - he is now a 6 figure computer geek.
We all have little stories - my point is, differnt things work for differnt people.
I could have just typed that last scentece, couldn't I. Would have saved me a buttload of time.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
it's pretty scary when you see the newest drug ads on TV telling you that the potential side effects, usually in "serious" cases, could include impotence and death...... nice.
Well, if their doctor is forward with the potential side effects then it's their decision isn't it? If the benefit outweighs the risk...
Quote:
Unfortunately you're trying to twist around the truth here a bit by saying some rhetoric I've heard in other threads and say that Science is a victim of my abuse here and is virtually faultless and blameless by nature. I must disagree with you very strongly here. Of course Science is a non living entity, completley incapable of thinking for itself or orchestrating an assault on people like the Terminator.
Then why do you capitalize it? Your term "Science" seems to refer to something different from science as it is generally understood. You seem to believe that "Science" has the goal of enslaving mankind, science on the other hand wants to figure out how to fix problems. This "Science" you keep refering to seems to be exactly the monolithic, evil entity that you are saying it isn't here.
Quote:
In the hands of the unscrupulous, which unfortunately usually have all of the funding which drives it, Science has been used as a weapon countless times against humanity.
And it has been used to help humanity much more often. You touched on the truth here, the problem is not science, the problem is people.
Quote:
I'm not saying that we shouldn't use Science
That seems to be the gist of every post you have made on the topic though.
Quote:
Who pays for it when a "wonderdrug" kills somebody? How many people were sent to jail when High School football players were dying from dehydration from using drugs bought at GNC that the FDA refuses to test? Not one damn person. How about Fen Fen for the weight loss? None.
Take at your own risk, personal responsibility. If I sell motor oil and someone drinks it am I to blame? If you want everything sold in "health" stores to be tested by the FDA then you'd better be ready for the tax hike to pay for it. Additionally, I'm fairly certain that lawsuits were filed and won in those cases.
Quote:
I have no control how Science is used around me particularly if there will be laws in the the future saying that I MUST be innoculated. Where does that stop?
This is politics that you are worried about not science. Additionally mandatory innoculations are what allowed us to eliminate Polio, Smallpox and the like, you may not like the idea, but if anyone is allowed to opt out of an eradication effort then the disease will continue to hang around. Plus, if you don't get vaccinated then when you get sick MY health care prices go up, I have to deal with a more crowded hospital, I have to get exposed to more virulent strains of disease in the hospitals, and I have to face the possibility that you will breed drug-resistant strains of bacteria.
Quote:
How long until there are laws saying we all need to be taking pills because Science determined that we are all more productive, happy and less inclined to strangle each other on them?
Once again, this is politics, not science. Science makes the drugs because there is a demand for happy pills, POLITICS decides to make them mandatory.
Quote:
Just turn on your TV at any time of day and watch the new ads for the happy pills. They're on every channel at any time of day. They're looking for that Soma and they won't stop until they find it.
Of course, you live in capitalist society. Drug companies see money to made in the happy pill industry, people want them and want them bad, so the companies make them.
Quote:
then I suppose it is not directly Science that is causing the indoctrination.
You've almost got it here...
Quote:
There is no question that medicine has a direct role, in that it is the medicine itself which modifies people's behavior.
Ooooooo, you lost it.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
I'm stepping outside my comfort zone here. You know I'm not up to the sparring standards in Real World discussions.
You seem to be doing fine so far, we can use more combatants here
Quote:
---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
Took almost a week for me.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
6ix,
1. There is a difference between science and technology.
2. There is a difference between science and scientists.
3. ADHD is real (I've seen it with my own eyes), but is often misdiagnosed and therefore overdiagnosed. Just how often this misdiagnosis takes place is subject to debate, but very few people (mostly scientologists it seems) would deny that there aren't SOME people who genuinely suffer from this disorder.
4. The autism epidemic is real. The definition of autism has expanded, and many people who have autism spectrum disorder are highly functional. But the number of severely dysfunctional children and adults with autism itself has skyrocketed. This is an undisputed fact.
5. We don't know what is causing the increase in cases of ADHD and autism. So many changes have occurred in our society in the last few decades. More hospital births, more caesarians, more vaccines, more TV, more electromagnetic pollution, more air pollution, more water pollution, more absentee parents, more divorces, more meds, more lawsuits, more people, more carbon dioxide, more government corruption, more autoimmune diseases, more openness to homosexuality, more openness to racial and gender equality, more Head Start centers, etc.
6. We don't know what is the safest and most effective way to improve the functioning of people who suffer from these disorders. Chances are, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Parents probably have to experiment with what works best, be it diet, occupational therapy, psychotherapy, laissez-faire, acupuncture, homeopathy, vitamins, or meds.
7. There are unscrupulous people in all levels of society who take advantage of science, technology, parental desperation, and teacher frustration, to push products and ideology that serves their best interests more than those of the children in question.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky 
--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME