ADHD.... Real disorder, or clever way to get us all on pills for life?

POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Saturday, February 24, 2007 12:03
VIEWED: 8797
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RUE

Friday, February 16, 2007 4:43 AM

More chemicals overall. There are hundreds of thousands of chemicals that didn't exist before WWII. (Back in the not so far past when everything was 'organic'.) Who knows what the witches brew is doing?

ANTIMASON

Friday, February 16, 2007 7:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Anti - If you could find a link for that and wheather it was indeed Reagan, that would be sweet.

this first link is a local news network covering aspartame, the second is a clip from a documentary which expands on Rumsfelds relationship in it all

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, February 16, 2007 1:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Yep. My dad is diagnosed as ADHD and jumps from drug to drug to 'combat' it. He says I have it too.
I forget what's not in front of me...that's why I write notes, and hold my keys in front of me before I lock the house or car door.
Everything's in degrees. Wanna give a full spectrum anti-biotic to someone with a small cold...or should we save it for the serious cases? Better for the pharmasuitical industry to give it to both.
EVERYONE has this attention def thing, EVERYONE has moments where the get distracted, or can't rightly remember stuff.
Save the meds for the serious cases.

I’ve never been convinced that ADHD is real; I suppose that there could be such a disease, but I’ll have to base that squarely on the benefit of the doubt, which after my experience with therapists, I’m not keen to give out too generously.

When you consider the symptoms: impulsivity, inattention and hyperactivity – these are not necessarily symptoms of any disease; they are traits that everyone shares, just like a sense of humor, courage or shyness. Hell, these are traits that some people try to foster. I have no doubt that these traits vary in severity from person to person in some more-or-less random distribution, just like every other trait, and it’s entirely possible and reasonable to expect that in a large enough sample some people may end up with a large dose of these traits and fewer of the other traits that they may prefer. And I can see how some people who are particularly hyper, impulsive or have short attention spans may find employment or education in certain fields difficult, but I’m not prepared to say that this is a psychological illness, because to some degree that describes half the people I know, including myself sometimes, and all the teenagers. What about people with no sense of humor? I bet that if you did a study of people with no sense of humor, you would discover that their brains differed slightly from those who did have a sense of humor. Not many of us would accept that being dull is a disease. Our behavior, however benign, is in some way connected with our brains. Our brains also reflect innate subconscious constructs that we may not even be aware of. I recently heard that every male brain (I’m assuming heterosexual) reflects contempt for images of naked men. Does that mean that if you don’t display an attitude of homophobia, you’re sick or abnormal? There are just seems to be so many perils with trying to discreetly label common everyday traits as symptoms some kind of psychological illness.

The problem here is that the world is changing and our lives are no longer dependent on scraping furrows in the dirt or running people throw in the King’s army. More and more our lives are dependent on being highly knowledgeable about the world around us. We don’t live in a world were only 5% of the population reads or understands the latest theories in turning lead into gold. The average person today learns more from books and formal education before they graduate from High School then most people learned in their lifetime only a couple hundred years ago. And what can you do with a high school education? Not much. If you want the good jobs you’ve got to go to college, which further emphasize the burden. The modern lifestyle has begun to place an enormous strain on society’s ability to sit still, and I wonder that this is all ADHD is.

It wasn’t too long ago that people with an aptitude for science and mathematics were viewed with contempt by popular culture. They were nerds and geeks. Why? Because their own particularly personality allowed them to sit and pay attention more comfortably then the average person? Perhaps they suffered from DDD (Distraction Deficient Disorder). Today nerds are almost celebrated, because society has figured that that these guys are ones making all the money in a world where technology has replaced agriculture. Now everyone wants in on it, but not everyone is suited to be a nerd.

Nihil est incertiu

RUE

Friday, February 16, 2007 1:45 PM

There's more to ADD/ADHD than sitting still. When the Ritalin's kicked in I can think from the beginning of one thought to the next, listen to the end of a sentence, or read to the end of a sentence in less than 10 tries. That doesn't normally require a lot of sitting, just keeping one thought in place for more than 2 seconds.

And there are usually other things that go along with ADD/ADHD, in my case visual processing problems (tho on the plus side subliminal imaging will never work on me).

This kind of thing isn't compatible with life where most people survived as part of a group and every life was full of opportunities to live or die.

CHRISISALL

Friday, February 16, 2007 2:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
There's more to ADD/ADHD than sitting still. When the Ritalin's kicked in I can think from the beginning of one thought to the next, listen to the end of a sentence, or read to the end of a sentence in less than 10 tries.

In my father's case, I remember as a child wondering why he couldn't watch a whole TV show from beginning to end. He channel surfed before the phrase was coined. But he went to school and got his degree with ADHD so I'm assuming it was a mild form. He says he focuses better with ritalin...cool. It's just he's always experimenting with doses, and other meds from Canada, as if he'll somehow reach this perfect awareness, like no amount of focus is good enough now. I think he's a Focus addict! Do you think he needs an intervention? Like in Clockwork Orange- sit him down with no meds and MAKE him watch ALL seven seasons of Buffy, after which there'd be a comprehension test?

Tough Attention Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, February 16, 2007 3:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I bet that if you did a study of people with no sense of humor, you would discover that their brains differed slightly from those who did have a sense of humor. Not many of us would accept that being dull is a disease.

Well I would. Observe Hero; he's a closet Dullard, he tries SO hard to be funny...he's in denial and need help.

Quote:
I recently heard that every male brain (I’m assuming heterosexual) reflects contempt for images of naked men. Does that mean that if you don’t display an attitude of homophobia, you’re sick or abnormal? There are just seems to be so many perils with trying to discreetly label common everyday traits as symptoms some kind of psychological illness.

See, when you go to the funny place, you're both subtle and effective...no DSH there (Dull Sense of Humour).

Okay, seriously, like Signy says, the brains of ADHD peeps measure smaller, and my dad says the purpose of the prescribed drugs is neurogenisis. So I can see that it's an actual disease in some. In the past, these individuals might have made bad farmers (imagine planting row after row of crops all day long with ADD?), but good court jesters (imagine Robin Williams making the King laugh).

And that's- OH CRAP!!! MY FRIES ARE BURNING!!! Chrisisall, not on ritalin

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, February 16, 2007 5:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
When you consider the symptoms: impulsivity, inattention and hyperactivity – these are not necessarily symptoms of any disease

Well, that is true. Having one or two "symptoms" or having all the "symptoms" mildly doesn't get you diagnosed with the disorder. And if it does, then there is some serious misdiagnosis going on, which does happen all too often unfortunately.

But there are people who have these "symptoms" or traits, if you will, to the extent that it causes an inability to function productively and much subjective suffering. Good diagnosticians take the whole picture into account, including social dynamics, current functioning vs. current potential, other possible diagnoses/disorders, and personal well-being.

If a child has an IQ of 145, but is getting D's and F's because she refuses to sit still or be quiet in class long enough to do any work or complete tests (despite the most rigorous and consistent discipline), runs around her classroom and her desk at will, disrupts other children, doesn't hear teachers, etc., then something is wrong. Slapping a Dx and shoving Ritalin down her throat is all too often a lazy solution. But suggesting the wrong solution doesn't dismiss the fact that something isn't working for this girl like for other children.

If I were a diagnostician, I would rule out other disorders such as Sensory Processing Disorder or Central Auditory Processing Disorder. I'd investigate family dynamics and lifestyle to see if something else might be contributing to her behavioral problems. I'd look at classroom dynamics for the same thing. I'd look at how she was able to concentrate well enough for the IQ test, and investigate the possibility that these problems might be caused by intellectual understimulation. I would interview her to see how happy she is with various aspects of her life.

It could be that the child actually has SPD, and not ADHD, coupled with a high maintenance personality that needs a lot of emotional reassurance. Maybe the parents don't give her as much attention as she needs and placate her with too much junk food and candy and toys. Maybe she craves stronger intellectual challenges and is running around because she is literally bored out of her mind.

It could be the lasting solution in this case is to take her out of school and homeschool, allowing her to work at her own intellectual level. Occupational therapy can help resolve some sensory processing problems, and help the parents be aware of her sensory needs. Her parents could schedule quality time to give her the emotional attention she craves. Eliminating excess sugar and junk food from her diet could mitigate some of that uncontrolled energy.

Making an accurate diagnosis is a very tedious and involved process to which some school psychologists are not willing or able to commit. Finding a solution that truly meets the child's needs is a very tedious and involved process to which some parents are not willing or able to commit. And the child gets mislabeled and mistreated so everyone else can have an easier life.

But denying her "ADHD" and treating the child like she doesn't have a problem isn't the answer either. Dismissing her dysfunction with platitudes like a "child will be a child" or "she'll grow out of it" is just as much a disservice to her as putting her on Ritalin. It is also an easy way out, without having to do any work.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)

FREDGIBLET

Friday, February 16, 2007 5:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
When you consider the symptoms: impulsivity, inattention and hyperactivity – these are not necessarily symptoms of any disease; they are traits that everyone shares, just like a sense of humor, courage or shyness. Hell, these are traits that some people try to foster.

Certainly, but when they are outside the human norm then it is a disorder, just like diabetes or giantism, you just can't see it as easily. So then the question is it causing problems? If yes then does the detriment of the medication outweigh the benefit?

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 16, 2007 7:30 PM

*Romulan Lurking Mode:Off*

Aw hell, and here I was gonna go back to lurking cause of the extremely polarized hostility here and y'all had to go and get all reasonable and rational on me.

And now TWG shows up, who's basically a pavlovian trigger for random acts of kindness, not to mention having the same effect on grumpiness that sunlight has on vampires.

Sooo, first things first, in reference to altered brain development, not just accidents of birth, but also extreme trauma and repeated neglect can alter not just the chemical pathways, but even it's physical structure.
http://www.childtrauma.org/CTAMATERIALS/neuros~1.asp

There's more than one flavor of altered devlopment however, so there is no one size fits all solution - that's where it's between your doc, your therapist and your family and not one bit of the durned governments business.

Just imagine trying to live a normal life with most of your emotions so muted you can't figure out what they are, and having to actually work at it very hard to form any kind of attachment to another person, diminished capacity sucks horribly, and all the worse because it is invisible or often percieved as a strength...

Anyhows, got two things for ya TWG.
http://itc.gsu.edu/academymodules/a304/support/xpages/a304b0_20600.htm
l
Mnemonic Enhancement is a useful thing versus attention span issues, and while it doesn't always work, being able to focus and distill a thought or concept and then *pin* it to an object relies on memory rather than attention span, and sight-recognition trigger can be useful for keeping track of things.

The hard part is getting the thought focused and distilled quick before you lose it, pinning it to the item is a seperate skill that takes practice and seemingly some folk never master it.

Still, it could be useful - I know of two people who use this technique with refrigerator magnets and one who uses a PDA with a symbol keyboard, so maybe you'll find some use of it.

Second thing...
http://www.seelecttea.com/product_info.php?products_id=43

http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/PrintablePages/herbMonograph/0,11475,4093
,00.html

This stuff's an old folk remedy for rowdy children and PMS miseries, Catnip is a mild calmative with little or no side effects outside of rare cases of slightly increased sex drive.

Unless of course you chug a whole bag of it like a college fratboy trying to impress the masses, then you might get a little ill

A more recent common use of it is to mediate symptoms of PTSD, slowing down the chemical escalation into fight/freeze/flight mode long enough to think it over and try to chill out, rather than going straight to the freakage.

If it works for ya, try growing your own, just don't carry it around with you in a baggie, boy oh boy THAT was an interesting incident with the cops indeed.... i'm sure you can imagine.

Anyhows, there's yer TWG-pavlovian-reaction act of kindness for the day, and i'm gonna go lurk for a while some more...

-F
*Romulan Lurking Mode:On*

SIGNYM

Friday, February 16, 2007 8:07 PM

I still wonder if it isn't related to lack of omega-3. Since the body can't make it and the only source is food, and it makes up a huge part of the brain dry-weight, if you don't get in in your food you inevitably short the brain.

As the fetus develops it draws omega-3 from the mom's bloodstream (which is moblized fomr her brain if she doens't get enough in her diet). Over generations the store of omega-3 gets smaller and smaller. Not that this is the ONLY factor, but it's certainly worth looking into.
----------------------
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Children of mothers who ate more fish and other seafood while pregnant are smarter and have better developmental skills than kids of women who ate less or none, researchers said on Thursday in findings they called surprising.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070215/hl_nm/seafood_pregnancy_dc;_ylt=Av
sv98oil16bBa04QveSs5fMWM0F

---------------------------------
Fish- they don't call ir "brain food" for nuthin'!

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