Bush's speech...
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Saturday, February 3, 2007 22:04
VIEWED: 12155
PAGE 10 of 11
"What was was the reason that America invaded Iraq?
One reason America invaded Iraq might have been to change Iraq into a functioning stable democracy."
I think that was reason number, uhmmm ... 1) wmd 2) al-Qaeda 3) toppling Hussein 4) capturing Hussein 5) spreading democracy 6) fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here 7) "failure" would be a disaster ... that would be number 5, which has since been superceded.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I don’t consider equating Bush to Hussein or similar kinds of comments to be merely disagreement or war-weariness. These kinds of statement, which occur far too frequently on this board, could rightly be called anti-American. In fact, even though I generally don’t say it, that’s exactly what I think they are in many cases.
Sorry. Have to disagree with you here. I am an equal partisan hater and I think the Dems will just take us further down the road to Communism than we already are. That being said, not only do I believe that George W. Bush will go down in history as the worst American president, but I believe he will take Christianity down with him. I believe that George W. Bush is far worse a human being than Saddam Hussain. The crimes we've committed against others when we don't have any Goddamned business there in the first place all because his administration lied to us and said they had nukes there. He's just one man in a long succession of men, from both parties, who have sold this country under our noses.
Wake up buddy. The "America" you knew and loved is gone. I have absolutely no love for our Government and I don't trust a single word that escapes their lips. These fascists will not rest until they are able to micromanage every single little thing we do, and have each other being their eyes and ears.
I love the idea of America. I love the great American ideals and the Constitution and it's ammendments. Some of those ammendments and rights specifically address rising up against a Government which has overstepped its boundaries. I do believe that time is dangerously close and what better a reason for them to try to destroy the true ideals of America and replace them with your misplaced loyalty to a Government who considers you cattle.
I share no for with our Government and I do not see patriotism and love of Government being even remotely related, given our current circumstances.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I don’t consider equating Bush to Hussein or similar kinds of comments to be merely disagreement or war-weariness. These kinds of statement, which occur far too frequently on this board, could rightly be called anti-American. In fact, even though I generally don’t say it, that’s exactly what I think they are in many cases.
Sorry. Have to disagree with you here. I am an equal partisan hater and I think the Dems will just take us further down the road to Communism than we already are. That being said, not only do I believe that George W. Bush will go down in history as the worst American president, but I believe he will take Christianity down with him. I believe that George W. Bush is far worse a human being than Saddam Hussain. The crimes we've committed against others when we don't have any Goddamned business there in the first place all because his administration lied to us and said they had nukes there. He's just one man in a long succession of men, from both parties, who have sold this country under our noses.
Wake up buddy. The "America" you knew and loved is gone. I have absolutely no love for our Government and I don't trust a single word that escapes their lips. These fascists will not rest until they are able to micromanage every single little thing we do, and have each other being their eyes and ears.
I love the idea of America. I love the great American ideals and the Constitution and it's ammendments. Some of those ammendments and rights specifically address rising up against a Government which has overstepped its boundaries. I do believe that time is dangerously close and what better a reason for them to try to destroy the true ideals of America and replace them with your misplaced loyalty to a Government who considers you cattle.
I share no love for with our Government and I do not see patriotism and love of Government being even remotely related, given our current circumstances.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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I think "dangerously close" has alredy come and gone, and if you have to ask yourself if you should act - it's already mostly too late to do so.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:Finn: The reason why you think this is because YOU equate "America" with it's President or with George Bush personally. My definition of "America" is quite a bit broader. I think of America is its ideals and its people, as well as its armed forces and politicians. My definition allows for the fact that a part of America- whether it may be a right-wing hate group or a corrupt politican- can splinter away from the concepts that make this nation special, and that EVERYONE should be held accountable for betraying the Constitution and the trust of the people.
I don’t consider equating Bush to Hussein or similar kinds of comments to be merely disagreement or war-weariness. These kinds of statement, which occur far too frequently on this board, could rightly be called anti-American. In fact, even though I generally don’t say it, that’s exactly what I think they are in many cases.
I see a pattern in your arguments, Finn. It's like your argument about "human life": your definitions are naive and you allow them to trump reality.
----------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:No. Equating Bush to Hussein to is a product of hatred and/or ignorance. But few of the people who make those kinds of comparisons know George Bush personally enough to make such a comparison. So while “Bush” has become a symbol of their hatred, the reality is that what they are probably referring to is “America.” Criticizing Bush is one thing, but equating him with a tyrant and a murdering thug with genocidal tendencies, that’s something completely different. I think in most cases it is a symptom of anti-American sentiment.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Finn: The reason why you think this is because YOU equate "America" with it's President or with George Bush personally. My definition of "America" is quite a bit broader. I think of America is its ideals and its people, as well as its armed forces and politicians. My definition allows for the fact that a part of America- whether it may be a right-wing hate group or a corrupt politican- can splinter away from the concepts that make this nation special, and that EVERYONE should be held accountable for betraying the Constitution and the trust of the people.
Quote:That means little to me. I’m sure you see that pattern in anyone you disagree with you.
Originally posted by SignyM:
I see a pattern in your arguments, Finn. It's like your argument about "human life": your definitions are naive and you allow them to trump reality.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Criticizing Bush is one thing, but equating him with a tyrant and a murdering thug with genocidal tendencies, that’s something completely different.
Oh ?
The problem with that thought is that he *IS* a murdering thug with genocidal tendancies, or does the taunting of a soon-to-be-executed person not factor in here ?
How bout HALF A MILLION dead in Iraq ?
How does he not qualify ?
How does announced intent to defy the will of the people, signing statements and "I am the decider" not make him a Tyrant ?
Hell, that ain't even criticism, that's just folk callin it like they sees it.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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And while others have made some deep and pointed comments, I'm adding just a little bit.
"Equating Bush to Hussein to is a product of hatred and/or ignorance. But few of the people who make those kinds of comparisons know George Bush personally enough to make such a comparison."
This is sloppy writing and thinking. If not 'knowing' Bush is your objection, most people know Hussein even less. I'm sure that's true for you. By your logic, even you know too little to make a comparison defense. For all you know it could be accurate.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
The problem with that thought is that he *IS* a murdering thug with genocidal tendancies, or does the taunting of a soon-to-be-executed person not factor in here ?
How bout HALF A MILLION dead in Iraq ?
How does he not qualify ?
Forgive me for quoting myself from an earlier thread (which, with dial-up, took me a considerable time to find), but I believe that given the above post it's necessary to repeat myself...
Originally posted byAURaptor:
"Bush and Blair freed more from Saddams tyranny than were accidentally killed. You want to equate the intentional murders by Saddam w/ the colateral dammage from the Iraq war? You're not worth wasting my time."
To which, I responded:
"Exactly.
If every head of state were responsible for deaths caused by the wars they oversaw, then by the definition of some in this forum, I suppose that Abraham Lincoln should've been killed for liberating an enslaved population.
Oh wait. Lincoln was killed for liberating an enslaved population. Apparently, some of the people in this forum have the same mindset as John Wilkes Booth -- "Blame and kill the liberators!" "
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
How does announced intent to defy the will of the people, signing statements and "I am the decider" not make him a Tyrant ?
Uh, this thing called The Constitution of the United States makes the U.S. President the Commander-in-Chief. That gives him the right to be the "decider" in all matters pertaining to usage of the military.
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Quote:I call it like I sees it, too. And this is how I sees it: you believe that the US is a tyrannical nation that commits genocide and is lead by a murderous dictator who mocks “soon-to-be-executed” persons. You can’t get much more anti-American then that.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Oh ?
The problem with that thought is that he *IS* a murdering thug with genocidal tendancies, or does the taunting of a soon-to-be-executed person not factor in here ?
How bout HALF A MILLION dead in Iraq ?
How does he not qualify ?
How does announced intent to defy the will of the people, signing statements and "I am the decider" not make him a Tyrant ?
Hell, that ain't even criticism, that's just folk callin it like they sees it.
I rest my case.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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