Bush's speech...

POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Saturday, February 3, 2007 22:04
VIEWED: 12155
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PENGUIN

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
If the electorate were ever actually, truly informed, they'd realize that they're being played for dupes by both parties. They'd realize that the differences between the two, while made to seem big, are really just paper thin. They'd realize how those clowns are just using the system to promote personal power. And they'd either vote them all out, and abandon both parties in favor of some alternative, or just revolt against a government that doesn't give two shakes about you (regardless of party affiliation), and really just wants to hold on to power as long as possible.

AMEN BROTHER!

This is why I'm tired of politics...

King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

CARTOON

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
That guy and the subway rescue....incredible story.

Indeed. I first heard about it in early January (when it happened), as I listen to 1010 WINS and 880 WCBS when I'm driving.

While it's had some national attention, I don't know how it's been playing in other parts of the world.

The amazing thing is this guy saw another guy take a seizure and fall onto the tracks. As the train was zipping into the station, this hero dove down off the platform. Anyone who's taken the subway in NYC (as I have regularly) knows how fast those trains come into the station.

Not having enough time to get the guy off the tracks (much less back up onto the platform), he pushed the guy's arms and legs off the rails, and lay on top of him as the train passed over them both. (I actually saw a picture of the guy's knitted skull cap which was brushed by the underside of the train.)

He then had to stay on top of the guy for more than a half hour (if I recall correctly), until the authorities could be sure they could get them out without electricuting them both.

This guy literally had only a few seconds in which to act, and he didn't hesistate. It's quite an incredible story, and I'm glad he got some air time in front of a national audience.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
You're a credit to your country, and a shame to those in ours who complain about everything, but don't take the time to actually become informed about the subjects over which they continually whine.

If the electorate was ever actually, truly informed, who knows how different the results of last November's elections would have been. Unfortunately, not everyone is like you, and actually takes the time to become informed before making a statement (or voting).

Read: people who don't agree with me are ignorant morons (I believe it's vital to quote Cartoon, as he has a habit to change his words after the fact to discredit others).

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
If the electorate were ever actually, truly informed, they'd realize that they're being played for dupes by both parties. They'd realize that the differences between the two, while made to seem big, are really just paper thin. They'd realize how those clowns are just using the system to promote personal power. And they'd either vote them all out, and abandon both parties in favor of some alternative, or just revolt against a government that doesn't give two shakes about you (regardless of party affiliation), and really just wants to hold on to power as long as possible.

One question I do have to ask, why the two party system? Why does it have to be one or the other ultimatly in charge? I don't really get it.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
One question I do have to ask, why the two party system? Why does it have to be one or the other ultimatly in charge? I don't really get it.

'Cause in this country everything has to be polarized.

Pepsi OR Coke
McDonald's OR Burger King
Traitor OR Patriot
Buffy OR Max

If you're not with us, you're against us.

Multiple parties would fragment our psyche, and force us to consider shades of grey...we would stand helpless at the buffet of political possibilities, unable to choose.

Say "baaaaa" Chrisisall

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:21 PM

Quote:
This guy literally had only a few seconds in which to act, and he didn't hesistate. It's quite an incredible story, and I'm glad he got some air time in front of a national audience.

I hear of 'hero' stories from time to time, and I'm more often amazed at how 'average' the events seem to be. Not trying to diminish what others have done, quite the contrary. But in most other cases, I think to myself..yeah, I'd have done something like that.

In THIS case, however,.....wow. I don't know. Granted, it must help living there and riding the rails to know what you're doing, but to do all that, notice what's going on, comprehend it then act on it...., all in an instant and NOT get yourself killed or maimed. It's heroic in every sense of the word.

( we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

)

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Multiple parties would fragment our psyche, and force us to consider shades of grey...we would stand helpless at the buffet of political possibilities, unable to choose.

Oh, the American electorate is considered to dumb to keep more than two things in their head at once.

Why didn't you just say?

But still, limiting the choices too two parties seems, silly.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
You're a credit to your country, and a shame to those in ours who complain about everything, but don't take the time to actually become informed about the subjects over which they continually whine.

If the electorate was ever actually, truly informed, who knows how different the results of last November's elections would have been. Unfortunately, not everyone is like you, and actually takes the time to become informed before making a statement (or voting).

Read: people who don't agree with me are ignorant morons (I believe it's vital to quote Cartoon, as he has a habit to change his words after the fact to discredit others).

I was waiting for Cartoon to debunk this particular strawman when Storymark mentioned it earlier, but I'm too impatient.
Because you do not agree with Cartoon, you are putting words in his mouth. And I am not just saying that because Cartoon happened to agree with me earlier.
Should a person actually watch the SOTU address before commenting or are you comfortable with uninformed opinions?

Posting to stir stuff up.

ANTIMASON

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

One question I do have to ask, why the two party system? Why does it have to be one or the other ultimatly in charge? I don't really get it.

you might find this interesting, the various methods that have been used to influence and guide society (carried on by the elite since the ancient world) towards a predetermined end *edit(i posted the wrong link originally-same topic, but not the one i wanted)

http://conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Delphi_Technique.htm

Quote:
The Delphi Technique was originally conceived as a way to obtain the opinion of experts without necessarily bringing them together face to face. In Educating for the New World Order by Bev Eakman, the reader finds reference upon reference for the need to preserve the illusion that there is "Lay, or community, participation in the decisionmaking process), while in fact lay citizens are being squeezed out."

A specialized use of this technique was developed for teachers, the "Alinsky Method" (ibid., p. 123). The setting or group is, however, immaterial the point is that people in groups tend to share a certain knowledge base and display certain identifiable characteristics (known as group dynamics). This allows for a special application of a basic technique. The "change agent" or "facilitator" goes through the motions of acting as an organizer, getting each person in the target group to elicit expression of their concerns about a program, project, or policy in question. The facilitator listens attentively, forms "task forces," "urges everyone to make lists," and so on. While she is doing this, the facilitator learns something about each member of the target group. He/she identifies the "leaders," the "loud mouths," as well as those who frequently turn sides during the argument the "weak or noncommittal."

Suddenly, the amiable facilitator becomes "devil's advocate." He/she dons his professional agitator hat. Using the "divide and conquer" technique, he/she manipulates one group opinion against the other. This is accomplished by manipulating those who are out of step to appear "ridiculous, unknowledgeable, inarticulate, or dogmatic." He/she wants certain members of the group to become angry, thereby forcing tensions to accelerate. The facilitator is well trained in psychological manipulation. S/He is able to predict the reactions of each group member. Individuals in opposition to the policy or program will be shut out of the group.

The method works. It is very effective with parents, teachers, school children, and any community group. The "targets" rarely, if ever, know that they are being manipulated. If they do suspect this is happening, they do not know how to end the process. The desired result is for group polarization, and for the facilitator to become accepted as a member of the group and group process. He/she will then throw the desired idea on the table and ask for opinions during discussion. Very soon his/her associates from the divided group begin to adopt the idea as if it were their own, and pressure the entire group to accept the proposition.

This technique is a very unethical method of achieving consensus on a controversial topic in group settings. It requires welltrained professionals who deliberately escalate tension among group members, pitting one faction against the other, so as to make one viewpoint appear ridiculous so the other becomes "sensible" whether such is warranted or not.

CITIZEN

Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
I was waiting for Cartoon to debunk this particular strawman when Storymark mentioned it earlier, but I'm too impatient.

Actually no, though you assertion is a Strawman, well done.

Thanks for pointing that out though, I hadn't read Storymarks post, I largely skimmed this thread you see. Strange how two posters independently read the same thing here, and the only one who so far had a problem with that interpretation was the guy who both agrees with Cartoons politics and recently had a rather large ego stroking from same. Although I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that, that has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
You're a credit to your country, and a shame to those in ours who complain about everything, but don't take the time to actually become informed about the subjects over which they continually whine.

How else is this to be taken except 'if they knew what they were talking about they'd stop whining'?

Just so we're clear, whining is the word that tends to be attributed to a position that one disagrees with

.

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
If the electorate was ever actually, truly informed, who knows how different the results of last November's elections would have been. Unfortunately, not everyone is like you, and actually takes the time to become informed before making a statement (or voting).

In other words if people were informed the election would have gone differently, people wouldn't have voted democrat and would have voted republican, like Cartoon does. Or, as I said, you either agree with Cartoon or you are uninformed.

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Because you do not agree with Cartoon, you are putting words in his mouth.

Actually I directly quoted him, right there for all too see, and now given clear reasons as to why I made the assertions I did, so try again, because this accusation is clearly erroneous. Oh and it's also a Strawman and a Red Herring because you both made up my argument and motivation for me.

Quote:
And I am not just saying that because Cartoon happened to agree with me earlier.

Oh of course not, who ever could think such a thing?

Quote:
Should a person actually watch the SOTU address before commenting or are you comfortable with uninformed opinions?

Before commenting on the address, probably, but Cartoon wasn't talking about the address, he was talking about the election, it's right there in the quote if you care to take a look.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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