Firefly Sets Yet Another Record!
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Friday, February 23, 2007 02:07
VIEWED: 52370
PAGE 11 of 16
Pirates (on the downloading end) are one, browsing for prospective purchases, which I can't argue due to the amount of complete crap out there that probably doesn't deserve anyones money yet often makes tens of millions which further fuels cheap trickery and thins ones taistes and/or horizons on what is and what could be out there. Pirates are two, kids (teenagers not withstanding) and other people with no jobs and no money significant enough to spend it on any extravagances, which is mostly reasonable when it's a child, but an adult or teenager in that situation frankly needs to get a job (ect.) with very few exceptions. Pirates are three, theives, ones never intending to purchace what they can have for free and they can easly suck alot of life out of things like this, many of theese people (although most would probably deny it) would if not affoarded the chance to get it for free actually purchace the item. The problem is the imbalance of theese types there's no fact that any type is greater than another but in my experience it's theives and by far. The only way to balance the ratio on one torrent would be for every one of the first type/children to leech a 0 ratio god knows how many times in a row, not neccisarily to kill it but like I said balance it, but you can't know what's enough and what's too much. I think yes a torrent has advertising potential, but the big money is on most any torrent anywhere is hurting more than helping the product make money. On the other hand most people tend to have vocal cords and a tounge and so on. Word of mouth has spread an absolutely massive amount of things to a baffling amount of people, some of which last for ages so even if knowledge on something is spread by pirates any amount of damage can be undone to atom shrunk if it spreads far enough. Most people do actually pay for things you know. Word of mouth however needs to actually spread, somethimes even with all the right ingredients there are still one or more out of a huge amount of scenarios that keep a chain from moving.... There's probably alot more to all of it and beyond it and it's all speculation and observtion anyway. Point it I take no side without evidence and I'm makeing myself sleepy with this. Fin.
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Quote:
Originally posted by pongluver:
Anyways, Razza. Nice cynical way to respond and twist my statements. Can't attack my argument, so just attack me. Quite the childish approach. That's Fine. Perhaps we will just have to agree to disagree on the subject. But you were semi right. If you (hypothetically anyone, not necessarily YOU) agree with stealing material, then no i don't consider you a fan of that material, just someone jumping on a bandwagon who is too cheap to invest in the bandwagon. Sorry if that offends you or anyone else here, but....how did you put it? .....If the shoe fits.
Pong:
Are you being deliberately this dense? If you had read my earlier posts you would know that I have supported Joss' work with my hard earned cash. I own two sets of the Firefly DVD's, a Serenity DVD, as well as several Seasons of both Angel and Buffy. I have also downloaded the entire Firefly series before 1I ever purchased the DVD's. Does that mean I'm thief? By your definition appearantly so. I think it's ironic that you love Firefly whose main character is a proudly self professed thief, but cannot envision the possibility that there are shades of thievery that do not fall into the black and white lens you seem to see the world through.
I'm glad you are such a fervent fan of Joss' work, misguided though you might be. Joss isn't running around like a chicken with his head cutoff decrying the evils of peer-to-peer file sharing. He is a true artist motivated by more than financial gain. I say that with full confidence because I know that such creative talent could not possibly exist in an individual consumed by financial reward. He writes and creates because he hopes to enrich the lives of those his creation touches, and I love him for it! He has succeeded immensely as far as I'm concerned, for me personally and everyone who visits this website and others like it devoted to his artistic creations. I say we do whatever we can to disseminate his creation as widely as possible and enrich the lives of as many people as we can with Joss' work, and in so doing feed the creative soul we all love. That is the measure of true success, not the size of one's wallet! Any true fan should know that.
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"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie
"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert
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Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:
Are you being deliberately this dense? If you had read my earlier posts you would know that I have supported Joss' work with my hard earned cash. I own two sets of the Firefly DVD's, a Serenity DVD, as well as several Seasons of both Angel and Buffy. I have also downloaded the entire Firefly series before 1I ever purchased the DVD's. Does that mean I'm thief? By your definition apparently so. I think it's ironic that you love Firefly whose main character is a proudly self professed thief, but cannot envision the possibility that there are shades of thievery that do not fall into the black and white lens you seem to see the world through.
I did read your earlier posts, I believe i wrote "not necessarily you". It isn't about you. Nobody is going to download a 20 gig file to BUY it later. Thats a ridiculous notion. Thats my point. This isn't about spreading the word. It's about doing something that will ultimately hurt Joss's sales and future ambitions. Quit trying to make this into a personal thing. I said supporting piracy of his work. But you obviously have not intention of commenting on what i post, rather just a twisted, vague interpretation of possible meanings in it. And this delusional view of a poetic justice in stealing work about a thief, does in no way justifies anything. It just further proves the childish nature of your argument.
Quote:
I'm glad you are such a fervent fan of Joss' work, misguided though you might be. Joss isn't running around like a chicken with his head cutoff decrying the evils of peer-to-peer file sharing. He is a true artist motivated by more than financial gain. I say that with full confidence because I know that such creative talent could not possibly exist in an individual consumed by financial reward. He writes and creates because he hopes to enrich the lives of those his creation touches, and I love him for it! He has succeeded immensely as far as I'm concerned, for me personally and everyone who visits this website and others like it devoted to his artistic creations. I say we do whatever we can to disseminate his creation as widely as possible and enrich the lives of as many people as we can with Joss' work, and in so doing feed the creative soul we all love. That is the measure of true success, not the size of one's wallet! Any true fan should know that.
Just because Joss doesn't complain about piracy of his work, doesn't mean he supports it. Or that as a fan it is all right. And if you don't believe Joss doesn't want to make money, that's just naive. Sure, he isn't purely motivated by greed, but he is a PROFESSIONAL. If it is misguided to actually care that Joss's work makes a finacial gain, than you are right.
Like i said, we must agree to disagree. You are providing no arguments, just juvenile, anarchist centered ramblings and personal attacks. You can disseminate (good word usage, btw) his work legally where he wouldn't take a loss, as i have shown examples of. However it seems your motivation isn't in spreading his work, rather just participation in a poetic rebellious act to try and somehow relate to the very material you support stealing. It doesn't seem we are going to ever join hands in this argument, and it seems to become more personal by the post. So unless you have something ideological to post concerning the topic, i would say we have reached a stalemate. This discussion is heading nowhere. I see no point in continuing it unless you bring something to the table worth discussing.
I don't care if someone who has never been exposed to joss downloads his stuff. But we aren't talking about Joe Schmo downloading a 700mb .avi in Cleveland because his friend told him about a movie he HAD to see. Someone who has never seen Serenity is not downloading a 20 gig file. You don't waste 20 gigs on a movie you know dick about. This is for people who have seen and like the movie. This is for people who are not going to buy the HD-DVD. Maybe some of them will, sure. But most wont. If this isn't avai
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Quote:
Originally posted by pongluver:
I did read your earlier posts, I believe i wrote "not necessarily you". It isn't about you. Nobody is going to download a 20 gig file to BUY it later. Thats a ridiculous notion. Thats my point. This isn't about spreading the word. It's about doing something that will ultimately hurt Joss's sales and future ambitions. Quit trying to make this into a personal thing. I said supporting piracy of his work. But you obviously have not intention of commenting on what i post, rather just a twisted, vague interpretation of possible meanings in it. And this delusional view of a poetic justice in stealing work about a thief, does in no way justifies anything. It just further proves the childish nature of your argument.
I'll stop making it personal when you do. You were the one who has called me assinine, a second-rate fan, childish, cynical, ararchistic, and twisted just to name a few. I have provided antecdotal evidence, philisophical support, and scientific research to support my position. You have provided nothing but insults and condescension in return. You have not refuted one of my points in the least, yet continue to try and belittle me personally instead of actually addressing the facts I have presented.
Quote:
Just because Joss doesn't complain about piracy of his work, doesn't mean he supports it. Or that as a fan it is all right. And if you don't believe Joss doesn't want to make money, that's just naive. Sure, he isn't purely motivated by greed, but he is a PROFESSIONAL. If it is misguided to actually care that Joss's work makes a finacial gain, than you are right.
Joss' work does make great financial gain and it is my position that peer-to-peer file sharing adds to the gain, where is your evidence to the contrary?
Quote:
Like i said, we must agree to disagree. You are providing no arguments, just juvenile, anarchist centered ramblings and personal attacks. You can disseminate (good word usage, btw) his work legally where he wouldn't take a loss, as i have shown examples of. However it seems your motivation isn't in spreading his work, rather just participation in a poetic rebellious act to try and somehow relate to the very material you support stealing. It doesn't seem we are going to ever join hands in this argument, and it seems to become more personal by the post. So unless you have something ideological to post concerning the topic, i would say we have reached a stalemate. This discussion is heading nowhere. I see no point in continuing it unless you bring something to the table worth discussing.
You obviously haven't listened to one word myslef or others on the board have said about the benefits of peer-to-peer file sharing. I have put forth a very concrete philisophical arguement. I will restate it again since you have appearantly failed to see what is right in front of you. Peer-to-peer file sharing is beneficial to the economic well being of the entertainment industry! Read the posts on the board for references to research studies and antecdotal evidence to support this arguement.
Quote:
I don't care if someone who has never been exposed to joss downloads his stuff. But we aren't talking about Joe Schmo downloading a 700mb .avi in Cleveland because his friend told him about a movie he HAD to see. Someone who has never seen Serenity is not downloading a 20 gig file. You don't waste 20 gigs on a movie you know dick about. This is for people who have seen and like the movie...[
It was Sigmanuki who addressed this in a previous post when he stated:
Quote:
Originally posted by Signamuki:
...There is also the fact that the more people in the swarm that are uploading/downloading, the faster people get the files. Bittorrent is very scalable. There's also the little fact that one can start a torrent and walk away. All that needs to happen is for the computer to remain on and connected to the internet. So, what does it matter if it takes 10 minutes or a couple weeks or more?
It is just as effortless
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I first watched FF after downloading the season from a torrent file. I did end up buying my own set. I download about 7 movies a week, all my music, and a lot of programs. I never buy the original product. So, I can see how it hurts the industry....I just don't give a shit. I am downloading Apocalypto at this very moment. Getting it at 260kbs. It will take me about 50 minutes to download. I would have never rented or bought this movie.
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One question Kaneman.
Would you ever buy and watch any of the movies and music you currently download if you were unable to? If so, what percentage?
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"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie
"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert
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Razza,
I wouldn't buy any of the movies. I would probably rent 25% of the movies I download. I never buy music cds. I usually download movies I don't know to much about. I try to not download movies my better half would want to rent on the weekend. So, I mostly download obscure low budget movies or ones that I wouldn't rent...I do tend to download all of the music I listen to. If I use the word I one more time in this post .....Slap.....
Love always kaneman
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Razza, you have shown no facts to support your claims. The "facts" you provided refer to the music recording industry SEVEN YEARS AGO and in no way hold any reflection on the current climate of internet piracy or the film industry impact to it. You still turn this personal. I never called you those things, i stated you made comments that were adequately described by such terms. Which was true. Your posts resemble the mindless ramblings of a twelve year old. Baseless unsubstantiated rumor, mixed with poetic, philosophical bullshit. You have stated nothing that substantiates your argument, only personal belief which holds no accord or a shred of legitimacy.
Also, its "just as effortless to download a 20 gig file than a 700mb file"? Thats just retarded.
You want hard facts:
This article from the BBC shows JUST the UK video industry took a loss of 45 million pounds in 2003 alone.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3692999.stm
Wanna go back to music? This shows the 11% drop in sales from the music industry. Read the article and you find that as a 1.6 billion dollar loss, IN JUST THE FIRST HALF of 2002.
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=2554
Here is more, hell i will even give you a quote.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/0929biz-pir
acy0929.html
Quote:
Given those facts, the study says, movie piracy causes a total lost output for U.S. industries of $20.5 billion per year, thwarts the creation of about 140,000 jobs and accounts for more than $800 million in lost tax revenue.
also, listen to kaneman. He has no intention of buying the stuff he downloads. That helps dvd sales....how?
My facts came from the BBC, The Arizona Republic, and Yale University. All legitimate and far more recent and actually APPLY to the discussion. Your childish notions have been squashed. You continue to show nothing worth discussion. Don't argue facts unless you actually research for it.
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Pong:
Finally! Some facts I can look at! I'll do that and get back to you this week some time.
BTW, Kaneman's assertions support my premise IMHO. He stated that he would never have bought the movies in the first place. How is that a loss to the movie industry? He never would have spent his money on their product in the first place. Thus, they never lost any money from his downloading activities, except for the 25% he says he might have rented. I suspect the studies you cite use the same fuzzy logic. Namely that the industry lost sales they never would have made in the first place. I'll look them over and get back to you when I can. Thanks for posting them!
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"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie
"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert
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I'll agree with Razza on this. How can it be a loss if I never would have bought in the first place? After seeing a product I like, I usually spread the word. I am sure I made at least 30 of my friends, family, and co-workers into browncoats. I tell everyone about a good flix when I see one. Some of them must buy or rent these movies when they are at the video store.
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