Jimmy Carter called out on anti-semitism!
POSTED BY: CrevanReaver
UPDATED: Sunday, April 8, 2007 10:36
VIEWED: 13315
PAGE 6 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by 'Gitizen':
Pick up the rock and throw
Quote:See, that's not half bad
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Your post doesn't even remotely make any sense, whichever English you try to decode it in.
Care to re-word your statement so that English speaking, English speaking people may be able to understand it Gitizen?
.As for the rewording thing, I would, but Khyron already did.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:You mean like you generalizing Jews as bitching and moaning about everything. That really helps your case, dude.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quite frankly, I'm just as tired of hearing Jews bitch and moan about everything as I am any minoirity. My life ain't all peaches and bubble baths bro. Everything about my life has been a struggle and because I'm white, male and hetrosexual nobody gives two shits. Can we please stop talking about stupid bullshit like this that does nothing but divide races even further, rather than heal them and bring them together?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
You mean like you generalizing Jews as bitching and moaning about everything. That really helps your case, dude.
Finn, you're right to point out that the wording of the original statement wasn't totally kosher in its political correctness. But nonetheless I have a problem with the sort of argument you made - maybe not so much in the context that you used it, but in the context that the PC Police likes to use it (and I don't consider you a part of that crowd... unless, of course, you actually are, but I think you're too smart to think in absolutes like those people like to do). So don't think any of the following is a response to you directly, it's a response to that sort of argument in general, when it's used for the wrong reason.
I'll use Jews as a representative minority group instead of the more cumbersome "minority group A", but my arguments apply to all minorities.
The biggest problem I have with the argument is that it deliberately deflects the criticism contained in the original statement from the specified target to another, much broader group of people. While we can all agree that the wording isn't great, which makes such a target-shift easy, I think we can also agree that 6string didn't mean to imply that ALL Jews are moaners and bitchers, but rather the small but vocal crowd that likes to cry anti-semitism whenever somebody higher up is critical of something that somebody who happens to be Jewish has done. Of course, that vocal crowd isn't composed only of Jews, but all manner of folk who take it upon themselves to show the world how morally superior they are by claiming to know what offends other people and accusing others of being bigots. These people, in general, like to argue along the lines of "This and that statement is offensive to Jews", even though it's very likely that it's only a small number of Jews that are actually offended by it (unless the original statement is unambiguously racist, but those aren't the statements I'm talking about). The PC Police takes it upon itself to represent ALL Jews and how it is they supposedly feel towards something (and hence tell Jews that they should be thinking this way if they consider themselves to be part of the broader Jewish community), and in this sense if somebody says "Jews should stop complaining", it's really directed towards the PC Police who takes it upon itself to represent Jews.
My second gripe: implied racism by the poster. By saying "you're generalising all Jews to be whiners and bitchers", one is basically saying "you describe everybody of this group by using a derogatory term, so you must not like this group, so you're a racist", even though it should be clear to people from the context that this isn't actually the case (again, I'm not talking about the cases where there genuinely IS a racist comment).
Finally, since the racism accusation tends to stick and automatically makes everything else invalid, the actual point the poster tried to make is lost. In this case, the poster also said "Can we please stop talking about stupid bullshit like this that does nothing but divide races even further, rather than heal them and bring them together?", and a very good call as well, but this sentence has been made insignificant because the first sentence of the paragraph has been twisted into making it sound like the poster is racist, so "why should we listen to what else you have to say?".
Basically, what it comes down to is this kind of dialogue (in reaction to person A saying statement B that is critical of what some members of group C have done, but not by any means racist):
PC Police: "Group C is offended by person A saying statement B, it's racist and thus so is person A."
Sick-of-PC-dude: "Statement B isn't racist, so group C should stop moaning and bitching about it, this discussion is pointless and only promotes hate."
PC Police: "Are you calling ALL members of group C moaners and bitchers!? RACIST!"
So Sick-of-PC-dude has been labelled a racist because of unfortunate semantics on his part, and bigotte
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Here a clip from an interview with Al Jazeera, in which Carter actually claims the so-called "Palestianians" are in some ways being treated worse than blacks under apartheid South Africa:
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24024&only&rss
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Quote:Glad to see you're into spreading the truth, although I feel it is an exaggeration in some ways.
Originally posted by Skywalken:
Here a clip from an interview with Al Jazeera, in which Carter actually claims the so-called "Palestianians" are in some ways being treated worse than blacks under apartheid South Africa:
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24024&only&rss
Moderate Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
...in which Carter actually claims the so-called "Palestianians" are in some ways being treated worse than blacks under apartheid South Africa:
Why is that so hard to believe? Don't you think it's possible that you either underestimate what the Palestinians are going through, or overetimate what blacks went through under Apartheid?
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
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I don't know much about Carter...
But I've been reviewing the arguments and statements made on this thread about him.
Is it possible that Carter isn't anti-Jewish, but rather pro-Palestinian?
Has he actually said anywhere that Jewish people are bad people and he wants to see them maligned or killed?
Or has he defended Palestinians against what he perceives as Jewish wrongdoing?
I mean, if someone defended the Jewish people against perceived Palestinian wrongdoings, would they be anti-Palestinian?
Would anyone care about an Anti-Palite (heh) the way they might care about an anti-Semite?
If we were talking about Chinese people and Japanese people, would there be as much drama to it?
What does that say about us?
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Khyron - I gotta say man... I think you nailed it on the head man. You've eloquently summed up just about every thought I've ever had about the whole PC movement and how it's spiraled out of control to the point where one almost feels like they can't say anything anymore without somebody crying foul about it and in turn losing their good reputation, their job, their house, their money or all of the above in court. I love how you point out the fact that because one part of a picture that somebody tries to paint might seem racist to somebody, once somebody claims they are racist for it, the entire point of the picture is lost and invalidated.
Thanks for validating my opinion here. Personally, I don't think I need any validation, but in todays diseased PC world, any attempt at brodening sanity and any help the sane can give each other is priceless.
Citizen - Sorry about the misunderstanding. I thought you were attacking me there somehow. I know we see eye to eye on about as much as we disagree about. Sorry about the Git thing too. I thought your reply was pretty funny though. Glad you kept your sense of humor about it.
Edit: Heh... looking back on your first post I see that it was the "lucid" thing that got me. I really didn't get that you were being sarcastic and I couldn't figure out if you were agreeing or disagreeing. 
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Is it possible that Carter isn't anti-Jewish, but rather pro-Palestinian?
Has he actually said anywhere that Jewish people are bad people and he wants to see them maligned or killed?
Or has he defended Palestinians against what he perceives as Jewish wrongdoing?
I mean, if someone defended the Jewish people against perceived Palestinian wrongdoings, would they be anti-Palestinian?
Would anyone care about an Anti-Palite (heh) the way they might care about an anti-Semite?
If we were talking about Chinese people and Japanese people, would there be as much drama to it?
What does that say about us?
Anthony - I won't pretend to know much about Carter or the situation either. Actually, I know much more about it now because of this thread than I ever did before. I do, however, have to give Carter the benefit of the doubt in this situation for the reasons I've stated above.
I think you bring up probably the most valid and insightful questions on this thread. My particular favorite was:
"Is it possible that Carter isn't anti-Jewish, but rather pro-Palestinian?"
Very good question here Anthony. I think we've been so brainwashed as a populous in school, in the newspapers, on TV and in movies for years about the holocaust and the hardships of the Jews that they've become untouchable to the point that many of us wouldn't ever even stop to think about asking that very important question. I think the immediate "knee-jerk" reaction almost anyone would have against Carter here would be to say that he was racist against Jews. (Except of course, the obvious extreme of true rscists that take glee in watching a Jewish person die, but that's not who we're talking about here) I don't even blame people who take that approach against Carter here... they've never been taught differently.
Just because you don't agree with a Jewish person (or any person from any "minority") or an entire race's standpoint on an issue, does not make you a racist.
Personally, I see no more reason why we're helping anyone in Isreal than I do for the entire war we're in. If those people really are so important to us than I think maybe we should give them Amnesty in our country... let the ones who want out have safe harbor come here, and leave the rest to fight if they want. It really is none of our business in the first place, and I think that giving them Amnesty here is more than generous.
Am I a racist for saying we shouldn't be involved in battles that are none of our damn business?
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:No, it makes you a terrorist, haven't you been keeping up
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Am I a racist for saying we shouldn't be involved in battles that are none of our damn business?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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