2004 Election rigging conviction in... Ohio

POSTED BY: Hardware
UPDATED: Friday, January 26, 2007 20:02
VIEWED: 2846
PAGE 1 of 1

HARDWARE

Friday, January 26, 2007 2:39 AM

http://www.centralohio.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/BE/20070125/NEWS
01/701250313/1002

So, for all those folks on this board who kept saying; "There was no election tampering in Ohio."
Looks like there was enough tampering to get felony convictions on two election officials.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, January 26, 2007 2:54 AM

"...[[]Special prosecutor Kevin Baxter[]] insisted the employees broke the law when they worked behind closed doors three days before the public Dec. 16, 2004, recount to pick ballots they knew would not cause discrepancies when checked by hand so they could avoid a lengthier, more expensive hand recount of all votes."

Evidently, the tampering wasn't done to promote one candidate over the other, which is what was actually being asserted by critics of the election results in Ohio, but rather to cut a possible corner to a lengthy hand count. I wouldn’t call that rigging the election. I would call that tempering with votes. Not good, but not a malicious attempt to affect the outcome either.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

ANTHONYT

Friday, January 26, 2007 3:02 AM

Hmmm...

Since the recount was being conducted to verify that the correct candidate had won...

And since the recount was rigged to ensure that the first count looked good...

Then the initial issue, (did the right guy win?) is still not settled.

They may not have merely been lazy. They may have furthered the obscurement of any original miscount.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, January 26, 2007 3:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
They may not have merely been lazy. They may have furthered the obscurement of any original miscount.

I don’t think these two points are mutually exclusive. Clearly, if we can believe what this article is saying, the actions of these elections workers furthered the obscuration in the results, but that doesn’t mean they did so maliciously. According to the prosecutor, it was done to avoid a “lengthier, more expensive hand recount of all votes.” That suggests to me that there were other reasons then the predictably assumed malice.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

YINYANG

Friday, January 26, 2007 3:26 AM

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_
stolen/1

From June '06. I haven't read it yet, but thought I'd put it in the mix.

FIVVER

Friday, January 26, 2007 3:28 AM

And when the real recount was done here's what was found:

Quote:

Special prosecutor Kevin Baxter, who was brought in from Erie County to handle the case, did not claim the workers' actions affected the outcome of the election - Kerry gained 17 votes and Bush lost six in the county's recount.

And that's out of 600,000 votes cast in the county.

YINYANG

Friday, January 26, 2007 4:26 AM

Quote:
Voting, as Thomas Paine said, ''is the right upon which all other rights depend.'' Unless we ensure that right, everything else we hold dear is in jeopardy.

Between the exit polls, Kenneth Blackwell, the Mighty Texas Strike Force, the registration barriers, long lines, faulty machines, statistics in "the twelve suspect counties," the recount "terrorist" debaucle, and other issues in Ohio 2004, I am very afraid.

It is not so much the foul play that may have swung it to Bush that bothers me, but merely that there is so much evidence of foul play to begin with. I would be equally as afraid if it was Kerry who had benefited instead of Bush - or if some anonymous third party candidate had won (of course, that would have shocked us all).

The other troubling aspect to it is how surreal this all is. Why haven't we heard more about this? If there wasn't so much evidence, this could be the greatest tinfoil hat conspiracy theory ever.

But, this happened. What do we do now?

ANTHONYT

Friday, January 26, 2007 4:48 AM

"If there wasn't so much evidence, this could be the greatest tinfoil hat conspiracy theory ever."

You clearly need to read some of PirateNews' stuff so that you can reclaim perspective on 'greatest tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.'

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

YINYANG

Friday, January 26, 2007 4:52 AM

Oh, please, no - the images he posts are bad enough as is. And, I suppose I should clarify - the greatest, most believable, tinfoil hat conspiracy theory every.

Nevermind...

PIRATENEWS

Friday, January 26, 2007 5:12 AM

That's why Skull & Boner Jew Kerry/Kohn masterbated in coffins and ate off Jew Adolf Hitler Shicklegruber Rothschild's silverware at the Tomb, so he'd take a dive and refuse all recounts. Jew Bush and Dracula's cousin, billionaire "Kerry", was paid a $51-million bribe in "leftover campaign contributions", which should have been spent on recounts. Instead the Green Party had to pay for Kerry's recount in Ohio. Jr Bush arrested the nominees from the Green Party and Libertarian Party, for daring to enter the city of the royal, er, "presidential" "debates".

Quote:

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."
-Joseph Stalin, a/k/a Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, convicted bank robber and genocidal dictator of Communist Russia, ally of British Empire and USA, who murdered one of his 3 "Jewish" wives, suspected Khazarian non-Semitic "Jew", murdered by his "Jewish" doctors when he finally turned on his "Jewish" Commies

Tennessee Supreme Court fires entire Knox County Gangsta Govt for Election Fraud

WATE TV
1/12/2007

In a decision released Friday afternoon, the Tennessee Supreme Court ruled that term limits do apply to Knox County's elected officials. This means that elected officials who have served more than two terms are no longer eligible to serve in office. Knox County voters approved term limits in 1994. Those affected by the term limits ruling include Sheriff Tim Hutchison, Register of Deeds Steve Hall, Trustee Mike Lowe, County Clerk Mike Padgett and commissioners John Griess, John Mills, Mark Cawood, Larry Clark, Billy Tindell, Phil Guthe, Diane Jordan, and John Schmid. These term-limited officials will remain in office only until replacements are appointed by Knox County Commission.
www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=41181

So our Gangsta Govt held secret meetings and hand-picked their own replacements, to keep gangstas in govt. No voting allowed. BTW, our sheriff had 6 criminal convictions for perjury while sheriff, but was never arrested, and gets a $100,000/year retirement, paid for by a $1,500/year property tax increase.

Danaher Systems, a foreign military contractor, "counts" all votes in Knox County, and loses 20,000 registered votes each "election". When the "deciding" computer "malfunctioned" in November, it "had" to be sent out of the state to be "counted". That's what gave the sheriff his new pension scheme. Why would the voters vote to double their taxes?

Make no mistake, the gangsters are now firmly in charge of USA, at all levels, the shearing is almost complete, and the sheeple are being herded into the slaughterhouse.

This is how REAL Americans deal with election fraud:

Quote:

The Battle of Athens, Tennessee

As Recently As 1946, American Citizens Were
Forced To Take Up Arms As A Last Resort
Against Corrupt Government Officials

Guns & Ammo
October 1995

On August 1-2, 1946, some Americans, brutalized by their county government, used armed force as a last resort to overturn it. These Americans wanted honest open elections. For years they had asked for state or federal election monitors to prevent vote fraud (forged ballots, secret ballot counts and intimidation by armed sheriff's deputies) by the local political boss. They got no help.

These Americans' absolute refusal to knuckle under had been hardened by service in World War II. Having fought to free other countries from murderous regimes, they rejected vicious abuse by their county government.

These Americans had a choice. Their state's Constitution -- Article 1, Section 26 -- recorded their right to keep and bear arms for the common defense. Few "gun control" laws had been enacted.

These Americans were residents of McMinn County, which is located between Chattanooga and Knoxville in Eastern Tennessee. The two main towns were Athens and Etowah. McMinn County residents had long been independent political thinkers. For a long time t

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FREMDFIRMA

Friday, January 26, 2007 6:33 AM

Dammit, PN - *I* was gonna post the Battle of Athens, argh.

Beaten to the punch AGAIN...

Anyhows, if you study the actual details of the case, there seems a lot more crookery involved than just dodging a recount, and as for who pays, of course the poor guys at the end of the chain of command, hung out to dry in lieu of following up and seeing how high the rot goes.

The sentencing is a joke, and why convict the executor of an act and not the folks who ordered it ?

It still reeks, I tellya.

-Frem

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, January 26, 2007 8:07 AM

From = http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen_press.htm

Take note: Eleanor, mind you, packed a revolver herself, and was rather firmly pro-gun and pro-freedom, regardless of what I think of her husband.

SOURCE: The Daily Post-Athenian, Athens, Tenn., August 7, 1946; pages 1, 6.

Quote:
McMinn A Warning — By Eleanor Roosevelt

New York, Monday — After any war, the use of force throughout the world is almost taken for granted. Men involved in the war have been trained to use force, and they have discovered that, when you want something, you can take it. The return to peacetime methods governed by law and persuasion is usually difficult.

We in the U.S.A., who have long boasted that, in our political life, freedom in the use of the secret ballot made it possible for us to register the will of the people without the use of force, have had a rude awakening as we read of conditions in McMinn County, Tennessee, which brought about the use of force in the recent primary. If a political machine does not allow the people free expression, then freedom-loving people lose their faith in the machinery under which their government functions.

In this particular case, a group of young veterans organized to oust the local machine and elect their own slate in the primary. We may deplore the use of force but we must also recognize the lesson which this incident points for us all. When the majority of the people know what they want, they will obtain it.

Any local, state or national government, or any political machine, in order to live, must give the people assurance that they can express their will freely and that their votes will be counted. The most powerful machine cannot exist without the support of the people. Political bosses and political machinery can be good, but the minute they cease to express the will of the people, their days are numbered.

This is a lesson which wise political leaders learn young, and you can be pretty sure that, when a boss stays in power, he gives the majority of the people what they think they want. If he is bad and indulges in practices which are dishonest, or if he acts for his own interests alone, the people are unwilling to condone these practices.

When the people decide that conditions in their town, county, state or country must change, they will change them. If the leadership has been wise, they will be able to do it peacefully through a secret ballot which is honestly counted, but if the leader has become inflated and too sure of his own importance, he may bring about the kind of action which was taken in Tennessee.

If we want to continue to be a mature people who, at home and abroad, settle our difficulties peacefully and not through the use of force, then we will take to heart this lesson and we will jealously guard our rights. What goes on before an election, the threats or persuasion by political leaders, may be bad but it cannot prevent the people from really registering their will if they wish to.

The decisive action which has just occurred in our midst is a warning, and one which we cannot afford to overlook.

A prophetic warning indeed, given how bad it's probably going to get, and soon.

-Frem

YINYANG

Friday, January 26, 2007 2:16 PM

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy

A rebuttal to the article I linked above.

HERO

Friday, January 26, 2007 3:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
The sentencing is a joke, and why convict the executor of an act and not the folks who ordered it ?

I agree...the whole Democratic political machine in Ohio is guilty...oops...did the article forget to mention party affiliation? Here's a hint. Cuyahoga County is home to a powerful Democratic machine. They control the Board of Elections in their area. It was their workers convicted of these crimes.

I guess none of you folk live in Ohio. The vote here was fine, I'll testify as a direct witness to that. All you can counter with is rumor and speculation.

H

STORYMARK

Friday, January 26, 2007 4:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
The sentencing is a joke, and why convict the executor of an act and not the folks who ordered it ?

I agree...the whole Democratic political machine in Ohio is guilty...oops...did the article forget to mention party affiliation? Here's a hint. Cuyahoga County is home to a powerful Democratic machine. They control the Board of Elections in their area. It was their workers convicted of these crimes.

I guess none of you folk live in Ohio. The vote here was fine, I'll testify as a direct witness to that. All you can counter with is rumor and speculation.

H

Not really. There are plenty of other who were there who witnessed things being less that "fine".

But keep cheerleading Hero. The truth is coming out, bit by bit, and your team is sliding quick.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

STORYMARK

Friday, January 26, 2007 4:20 PM

Double...

SHINYED

Friday, January 26, 2007 5:36 PM

There has never been a perfect election in the United States for all it's 230 years. These people who are so frikkin' obsessed with every single horseshit story that comes out, conspiracies, etc etc etc...you're all just rutting nuts!...Get a life! Play tennis....Go on a picnic...anything!

RIGHTEOUS9

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:10 PM

Fivver,

the "real recount" as you put it that turned up 17 extra votes for Kerry and 6 less for bush only refers to the precounted non-randomly selected 3 percent of the vote that they already knew matched, according to what I read on the story. This preselection process was done out of the public eye, and with the very intention of "preventing an expensive recount," supposedly.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But you could hardly use that whitewashed manipulated evidence to prove that there was no massive fraud....um, there I must be wrong.

..........................

It doesn't make any sense to me....either the workers thought there was a good chance that the election wasn't going to match up and they wanted Bush to win, or they thought there was a good chance things weren't going to add up and they didn't want the full recount to be triggered because they were "tired" or because they believed it would be costly for their state.

Either way they thought that a random recount might show a general problem with the actual results, yet they didn't think that that should be public knowledge, and didn't honestly care to protect our democracy.

.........................

HERO!!!

Robert Bennett was the head of the Cuyahoga county board of elections, appointed to it by Blackwell, and surprise surpise, he's a republican. How many times do you have to be rebutted on the same points? I should just put a page on my desk top so that I can just paste it in response the next time you decide to espouse the same rhetoric.

STORYMARK

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
There has never been a perfect election in the United States for all it's 230 years. These people who are so frikkin' obsessed with every single horseshit story that comes out, conspiracies, etc etc etc...you're all just rutting nuts!...Get a life! Play tennis....Go on a picnic...anything!

Brilliant idea. Corruption has been around forever, so don;t try to do anything about it. Stop worrying about all the pointless minutae like the truth, or letting the people have a voice in government. Just smile, have a picnic, and let those in power do as they will, no matter if it's right or wrong.

Great plan.

No wonder we're in the mess we're in...

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

FIVVER

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:30 PM

Hi Righteous9,

I thought about that but in the quote I posted the special prosecutor states 'recount' not the selection process. I also don't think the prosecutor would have said there's no problem with the election because so few votes changed in a contaminated process. As to why they did it I think your second theory is correct. They were basically convicted on charges of failing to do their job not fraud.

RIGHTEOUS9

Friday, January 26, 2007 7:38 PM

Yeah, I believe the 3 percent was the only recount ever done, but I might be wrong about that.

SHINYED

Friday, January 26, 2007 8:02 PM

OK Don Quoxite....I get it....go chase your windmills. ME...I got my family, my job, and my Firefly DVD's to keep me plenty busy.