Bush's speech...

POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Saturday, February 3, 2007 22:04
VIEWED: 12155
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FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:30 AM

Curses.. well, at least I can be semi-sure none of the folks I use it on are Browncoats, as some consolation.

You DO realize that technique works just as well in BOTH directions, Anti ?

-F

ANTIMASON

Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:43 AM

true.. but atleast my motives would be pure

back to Bush though, i found this pretty humurous clip from the daily show, and it seems to characterize a noticeable change in Bushs idealogy and behavior.. which i believe is indicative of the mechanisms behind the office, that have turned him into a puppet, obviously selected, but still forced to sumbit to the NWO agenda(maybe even against his better judgement). check it out and let me know yourselves

=

YINYANG

Thursday, January 25, 2007 2:47 AM

Quote:
Hmmm. I guess it's time to dust off this video that was making the rounds before the 2004 election (I was hoping that someone had YouTubed it, and they had ). It's a comparison of Bush's speaking ability during the 1994 Texas Governor debate and the 2004 Presidential debate. Different than reading a teleprompter, but if 2007 State of the Union Bush is less impressive than 1994 Governor Debate Bush, that would really suck for AURaptor's claim.

Anyone have any links to SOTU 07 video footage that we can compare?

- Bush SOTU '07, Illegal Immigration

Soup, now I'm worried about Mr. Bush.

He may have serious problems, and we should try to help him, not ridicule him (and I mean this in a very non-sarcastic way). Of course, I didn't really find a lot on Dr. Joseph M. Price (stupid broken links) - I'm not sure whether the Dr. is because he's a professor, or because he actually has a doctorate - but, still... Bush 1994 (and even Bush 2000) were just wow. Wow.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
I was waiting for Cartoon to debunk this particular strawman when Storymark mentioned it earlier, but I'm too impatient.
Actually no, though you assertion is a Strawman, well done.

Actually, yes, it was a strawman. All Cartoon said was that there are people in the US who whine instead of informing themselves about the issues. And I doubt anyone will disagree with that. Your response was then to rephrase Cartoon’s argument to mean something that he did not say, which would allow you to criticize him. That’s a strawman.

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
If the electorate were ever actually, truly informed, they'd realize that they're being played for dupes by both parties. They'd realize that the differences between the two, while made to seem big, are really just paper thin. They'd realize how those clowns are just using the system to promote personal power. And they'd either vote them all out, and abandon both parties in favor of some alternative, or just revolt against a government that doesn't give two shakes about you (regardless of party affiliation), and really just wants to hold on to power as long as possible.

If people were truly informed, they wouldn’t be played for dupes by either party, but for the most part people, in all countries, choose to be uninformed, often opting for easier sarcasm, ridicule or cynicism, and it’s hard to imagine how that is the fault of politicians.

As for the State of the Union Address, I think it was a very strong address. Bush made the case for the war well, I think, but these are arguments that, however sound, have been made before (although that doesn't exonerate the Bush Administration for the lack of public engagement on this issue). If critics were going to accept them, they would have by now. While I think he did a good job with it, it won’t change any minds, and ironically the strength with which he made these arguments probably added vigor to the opposition, who will now feel the need to attack the president and his positions more strongly to compensate.

On the domestic front, Bush’s healthcare proposal, which I like very much, would help to provide health insurance for 80% of workers by, and would do so without instituting it in the government. The Democrats will not like this at all, though. Democrats want socialized healthcare. It’s possible though that there could be a compromise that would include an expansion of Medicare, maybe, along with Bush’s proposal.

Also Bush’s energy initiatives are a good step, but I really wish there was more incentive for the free market and fewer tariffs. However, Bush has the right idea. Technology and conservation are the direction we need to go on this.

One thing that I think was a major mistake to leave out was something on Missile Defense. Our defense technology is critical, but Democrats have a habit of putting defense on the backburner.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

SIRI

Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
I'm Canadian and I somehow managed to find the time to watch.
Democracy is at it's best when fueled by an informed electorate.

I couldn't agree more.

You're a credit to your country, and a shame to those in ours who complain about everything, but don't take the time to actually become informed about the subjects over which they continually whine.

If the electorate was ever actually, truly informed, who knows how different the results of last November's elections would have been. Unfortunately, not everyone is like you, and actually takes the time to become informed before making a statement (or voting).

So, people are only "turly informed" if they agree with you?

I agree though, if people were better informed, November's elections may well have been different. We may have gotten rid of even more of the "do nothing congress". I imagine if people were better informed, the last couple Presidential elections would have been quite different as well. I think it's safe to say if everyone knew then what we know now, Dubya wouldn't be let anywhere near the White House.

For the most part, I would be pegged a liberal - I do tend to lean in that direction. That being said, I did listen to the President last night and generally do. I do my best to listen to people with opinions and views that differ from my own. I am from Missouri and must admit that I didn't listen to our governor's state of the state speech tonight. I just have a whole lot of difficulty listening to him. Guess I have some work to do on myself but I keep trying.

It always troubles me to hear people resort to name calling and labelling others who don't agree with them - I try not to do that myself - even in my head. It seems to me that it adds to the polarity that already exists. We do it in our homes, in our workplaces and more and more in our churches - not sure about the synagogues but I suspect it's rampant. There's a new film called Children of God which I haven't seen yet but believe it is a semi-documentary of Christian camps that are attempting to indoctrinate young children as warriors of Christ or some sort of thing like that. Fight fire with fire kind of thing. So sad - and very scary. Calling people who disagree and voice their disagreement with the powers that be traitors and terrorist sympathizers is sad and not what I would hope from other Americans.

I'm not sure who really benefits from these kinds of actions. In the long run, it just seems to hurt us all and keeps us from working together to solve the problems that face humanity all over the globe. Seems like we need to shift the focus toward listening and problem solving - guns as the ultimate last resort.

Siri

SIGNYM

Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:06 AM

Quote:
Actually, yes, it was a strawman. All Cartoon said was that there are people in the US who whine instead of informing themselves about the issues. And I doubt anyone will disagree with that. Your response was then to rephrase Cartoon’s argument to mean something that he did not say, which would allow you to criticize him. That’s a strawman.

Finn, did you read Cartoon's statement all the way thru? Up through

Quote:
You're a credit to your country, and a shame to those in ours who complain about everything, but don't take the time to actually become informed about the subjects over which they continually whine.

I would have agreed with you, but then he went on to say

Quote:
If the electorate was ever actually, truly informed, who knows how different the results of last November's elections would have been.

?????

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

ANTHONYT

Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:50 AM

I think Children of God is about a sci-fi near-future when women can no longer become pregnant.

Then one woman does become pregnant, and becomes the focus of a lot of attention.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, January 25, 2007 7:07 AM

When he starts talking about real efforts to protect our borders, a real attempt to solidify our right to bear arms and putting an end to the unconstitutional meddling with smokers rights and business owners who cater to them and letting the market decide if smoking should be allowed in establishments once and for all, as a Repuglican should be doing, than I'll give a damn what he has to say.

Till then, he can take his illegal war, socical security reform (or lack therof) and illegal survelance of American citizens and stick them up his unconstitutional, Communistic ass.

When did Repuglicans become Globalists and Communists anyways? I can only imagine how much worse it will be when the Demoncrats take over again.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

SOUPCATCHER

Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
- Bush SOTU '07, Illegal Immigration

Soup, now I'm worried about Mr. Bush. He may have serious problems, and we should try to help him, not ridicule him (and I mean this in a very non-sarcastic way). Of course, I didn't really find a lot on Dr. Joseph M. Price (stupid broken links) - I'm not sure whether the Dr. is because he's a professor, or because he actually has a doctorate - but, still... Bush 1994 (and even Bush 2000) were just wow. Wow.

Thanks for the link, yinyang. He didn't embarass himself. Didn't make his mother proud either though. (Weird side note, Pelosi was quicker off the draw than Cheney when it came to clapping. If Cheney's reflexes are that crappy, that dude he shot in the face must've been moving in super slo mo).

As far as the link I posted, I personally don't put too much stock into the claims made on the video. Making a diagnosis via video smacks too much of Senate Majority Leader Frist RE: Terri Schiavo, if you ask me. I'm more interested in the actual clips of George Bush, rather than the argument that uses those clips as evidence.

Quite a contrast, isn't it?

I think part of it is affected. It's a designed mannerism to appeal to the, "He's the kind of guy I'd like to have a beer with," demographic. But I also think that he just doesn't care anymore. He's tried this Presidenting and now he's bored. He's just phoning it in now.

What I saw in that clip from the 1994 debate was someone who was fluent on the issue being debated, had an opinion on a plan to improve that particular situation (at least in his mind) and a general idea on how to go about implementing that plan. In short, someone who was engaged and interested. I don't get that from Bush today.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:09 PM

Fascists, Jack.. Fascists of the Mussolini stripe, and not even any good at it, alas.

Communists wanna take your stuff and give it to everybody.
Fascists wanna take your stuff and give it to their buddies.

The Rethugs 'went global" with the phenomenon of outsourced slave labor cause it's cheaper for their corpo buddies than paying americans.

I'd give more credence to the term "Free Market" when the folks in power mouthing it don't actually MEAN "Government Sponsored/Subsidised Monopoly".

The Dems in the past fifteen years or so have been of a more socialista bent, too true, but right now they're all so busy sucking up to a country that shall not be named, while handing out all our treasure to em, and that's right pissin me off.

I'm favorin the YOYO philosophy on that right now - ya don't live here ?
YOYO - You On Your Own!

To hell with givin OUR money to ANY foreign country, particularly one that gains us zero benefit and endless obligation.

-Frem

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